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Poor man "Trioplan"
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:03 am    Post subject: Poor man "Trioplan" Reply with quote

A little quiz for our forum friends: the following photos were NOT taken with a Trioplan, but with a surrogate I devised (nothing complicated, really); the result in my opinion is closer to the original than any other attempt I have seen so far; the first photos were taken in veiled light, but when the sun comes out in the last ones, it is a triumph of bubble bokeh, with the same characteristic extreme sharpness of the blurred circle edge. Anyone want to take a guess at what I used?

[img]_A1A0437 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]

[img]_A1A0445 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]

[img]_A1A0450 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]

[img]_A1A0453 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]

[img]_A1A0459 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]


[img]_A1A0460 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]

[img]_A1A0470 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks pretty close to the Trioplan 100/2.8 I have tired.

Congrats


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)

Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.

The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvin83 wrote:
Looks pretty close to the Trioplan 100/2.8 I have tired.

Congrats


Thank you!


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blotafton wrote:
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)

Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.

The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm.


Nope, it's a longer lens, I don't think you can have such wide bubbles from a WA. It's true by the way that the bubbles toward the edges are incomplete, a crop could maybe solve this, if annoying.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak...


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Meyer Primotar 135mm 3,5 is the next best (and cheaper) soap bubble lens...


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak...


The Domiplan 50 mm perhaps?

Nothing too fency… by simple.joy, on Flickr

Finally, food for fence fans... by simple.joy, on Flickr

and it does show the deformations towards the edges:

Gotta train for Christmas! by simple.joy, on Flickr

I've also seen a Primotar 50 mm do some similar things, but I don't have one...


It does not bubble as much as the Trioplan, but I could easily imagine it, if it's slightly tweaked...


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak...


I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak...


I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two.


Well, you named the solution: FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. Nothing special, all right, but a cue for experimentation that I hadn't yet encountered


#1


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could do that. Of course a TC will increase your F-stop, and the Fujinon has poor WO sharpness that is increased with using a TC.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles.


Like 1 small What a great idea! And fun results when you focus close, to still have the desired background separation despite the smaller effective aperture.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea - I've done this with my Vivitar 2x macro focusing teleconverter that has extremely similar effect on out of focus highlights.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blotafton wrote:
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)

Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.

The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm.

My cine trioplan does have incomplete bubbles towards the edges due to the mechanical vignetting. Wink
http://forum.mflenses.com/meyer-trioplan-4-inch-f2-8-cine-on-a7rii-t81129,highlight,%2Btrioplan.html



PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="calvin83"]
blotafton wrote:
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)

Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.

The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm.

My cine trioplan does have incomplete bubbles towards the edges due to the mechanical vignetting. Wink
http://forum.mflenses.com/meyer-trioplan-4-inch-f2-8-cine-on-a7rii-t81129,highlight,%2Btrioplan.html/quote]

Yes, I thought there might be a few like that. I haven't seen that lens, looks good.

Here is a similar test made with a Yashinon 5cm f2 and a x2 converter. It was not as successful as Ultrapix experiment. Looks like something is very wrong.


#1


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak...


I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two.


Well, you named the solution: FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. Nothing special, all right, but a cue for experimentation that I hadn't yet encountered


I find the Fujinon to be a nice lens with acceptable sharpness wide open. I enjoy its bokeh even without the soap bubbles. I've never been a fan of teleconverters and suspect you haven't accomplished a 100mm equivalent in the way you may think. I think the bubble sizes will be the same or even better if you halve the distance from what you're at with the tele attached. In other words, frame the subject the same by moving closer and the bubbles will not be substantially different from using a teleconverter at twice the distance.

You may find either of the 80mm or 100mm Diaplans fun to use. But if you like the idea of the teleconverter, try it with the 2.8/50 Trioplan.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:

FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles.

#1


A clever experimental find! And the resulting images seem "better" than the original, i.e. sharper and less washed out. Congrats!


PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8?


Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak...


I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two.


Well, you named the solution: FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. Nothing special, all right, but a cue for experimentation that I hadn't yet encountered



My initial guess was right. It is the Fujinon 55mm/2.2. I have this lens and it does show the bubble soap bokeh. You have a nice idea here! I will need to find an 2x for the Fuji AX mount first.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys Friends


PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



As mentioned above, the Domiplan does 'bubble', although not as much as the Fujinon.



It was mounted on a Spiratone 2-3x 'VarXtender' I received with some other order a while back. The Domiplan I only received a few days back, it's the third I've tried, and I can finally see what people have been saying about getting a decent copy of the lens.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not bad at all; The intensity of the bubble phenomenon depends strictly on the light and the subject. To get the best, the ideal is direct sunlight on flowers covered with rain or dew, or Christmas illuminations, etc.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
Not bad at all; The intensity of the bubble phenomenon depends strictly on the light and the subject. To get the best, the ideal is direct sunlight on flowers covered with rain or dew, or Christmas illuminations, etc.


Yep. Point source of light works best for bubbles. Here's my vote for the Trioplan killer: Ilex Cinemat 100mm f2.9
#1


Dallmeyer Kinematograph #9 (150mm f4.5)


#1


Not exactly round soap bubbles, but if bright edges are your thing (Dallmeyer Super Six 102mm f1.9)


#1


#2
[img]http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/202212
/10000__DSC0282_1.jpg[/img]


Dallmeyer Super Six 8 inch f2


#1


PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dallmeyer is closer to the soap bubbles and you can buy one for the price of a car.