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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:03 am Post subject: Poor man "Trioplan" |
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Ultrapix wrote:
A little quiz for our forum friends: the following photos were NOT taken with a Trioplan, but with a surrogate I devised (nothing complicated, really); the result in my opinion is closer to the original than any other attempt I have seen so far; the first photos were taken in veiled light, but when the sun comes out in the last ones, it is a triumph of bubble bokeh, with the same characteristic extreme sharpness of the blurred circle edge. Anyone want to take a guess at what I used?
[img]_A1A0437 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]
[img]_A1A0445 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]
[img]_A1A0450 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]
[img]_A1A0453 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]
[img]_A1A0459 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]
[img]_A1A0460 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img]
[img]_A1A0470 by sante.castignani, su Flickr[/img] |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Looks pretty close to the Trioplan 100/2.8 I have tired.
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The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1552 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)
Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.
The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm. |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
Looks pretty close to the Trioplan 100/2.8 I have tired.
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Thank you! |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
blotafton wrote: |
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)
Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.
The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm. |
Nope, it's a longer lens, I don't think you can have such wide bubbles from a WA. It's true by the way that the bubbles toward the edges are incomplete, a crop could maybe solve this, if annoying. |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2491
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? _________________ pentaxian |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
D1N0 wrote: |
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? |
Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak... |
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planet.groove
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 73 Location: Berlin, Germany
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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planet.groove wrote:
the Meyer Primotar 135mm 3,5 is the next best (and cheaper) soap bubble lens... _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/planetgroove |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022 Posts: 437
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
D1N0 wrote: |
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? |
Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak... |
The Domiplan 50 mm perhaps?
Nothing too fency… by simple.joy, on Flickr
Finally, food for fence fans... by simple.joy, on Flickr
and it does show the deformations towards the edges:
Gotta train for Christmas! by simple.joy, on Flickr
I've also seen a Primotar 50 mm do some similar things, but I don't have one...
It does not bubble as much as the Trioplan, but I could easily imagine it, if it's slightly tweaked... _________________ ---
Manual lens enthusiast
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simple_joy/ |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
D1N0 wrote: |
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? |
Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak... |
I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
Ultrapix wrote: |
D1N0 wrote: |
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? |
Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak... |
I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two. |
Well, you named the solution: FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. Nothing special, all right, but a cue for experimentation that I hadn't yet encountered
#1
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2491
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:54 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
I could do that. Of course a TC will increase your F-stop, and the Fujinon has poor WO sharpness that is increased with using a TC. _________________ pentaxian |
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Crazy Leica Fox
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 Posts: 59
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Leica Fox wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. |
What a great idea! And fun results when you focus close, to still have the desired background separation despite the smaller effective aperture. |
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eggplant
Joined: 27 May 2020 Posts: 516
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:28 am Post subject: |
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eggplant wrote:
Nice idea - I've done this with my Vivitar 2x macro focusing teleconverter that has extremely similar effect on out of focus highlights. _________________ UK |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
blotafton wrote: |
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)
Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.
The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm. |
My cine trioplan does have incomplete bubbles towards the edges due to the mechanical vignetting.
http://forum.mflenses.com/meyer-trioplan-4-inch-f2-8-cine-on-a7rii-t81129,highlight,%2Btrioplan.html
_________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1552 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
[quote="calvin83"]
blotafton wrote: |
I don't want to sound negative but there are several different Trioplan lenses with different character and non of them that I know have that peculiar bokeh shape and incomplete bubbles towards the edges (when mounted the correct way at least.)
Not all but many triplet lenses are similar to Trioplans of the corresponding focal length.
The strange shape of the bokeh is a hint. It could be one of those fast third party 28 or 35mm. |
My cine trioplan does have incomplete bubbles towards the edges due to the mechanical vignetting.
http://forum.mflenses.com/meyer-trioplan-4-inch-f2-8-cine-on-a7rii-t81129,highlight,%2Btrioplan.html/quote]
Yes, I thought there might be a few like that. I haven't seen that lens, looks good.
Here is a similar test made with a Yashinon 5cm f2 and a x2 converter. It was not as successful as Ultrapix experiment. Looks like something is very wrong.
#1
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
woodrim wrote: |
Ultrapix wrote: |
D1N0 wrote: |
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? |
Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak... |
I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two. |
Well, you named the solution: FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. Nothing special, all right, but a cue for experimentation that I hadn't yet encountered
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I find the Fujinon to be a nice lens with acceptable sharpness wide open. I enjoy its bokeh even without the soap bubbles. I've never been a fan of teleconverters and suspect you haven't accomplished a 100mm equivalent in the way you may think. I think the bubble sizes will be the same or even better if you halve the distance from what you're at with the tele attached. In other words, frame the subject the same by moving closer and the bubbles will not be substantially different from using a teleconverter at twice the distance.
You may find either of the 80mm or 100mm Diaplans fun to use. But if you like the idea of the teleconverter, try it with the 2.8/50 Trioplan. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles.
#1
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A clever experimental find! And the resulting images seem "better" than the original, i.e. sharper and less washed out. Congrats! |
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vivaldibow
Joined: 23 Jun 2018 Posts: 837
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:17 am Post subject: |
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vivaldibow wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
woodrim wrote: |
Ultrapix wrote: |
D1N0 wrote: |
Some projection lens. Maybe the Meyer Optik Diaplan 100mm 1:2.8? |
Nope, it's a photographic lens already associated to the Trioplan, here with a little tweak... |
I too would think the Diaplan, either 100mm or 80mm. The "tweak" makes me wonder. I haven't tweaked my lenses, but have gotten similar effects from Domiplan, Primoplan, Primotar, Fujinon 2.2/55 (very inexpensive), and another projector lens or two. |
Well, you named the solution: FUJINON 55 2.2, combined with a teleconverter to have a tele focal length and larger bubbles. Nothing special, all right, but a cue for experimentation that I hadn't yet encountered
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My initial guess was right. It is the Fujinon 55mm/2.2. I have this lens and it does show the bubble soap bokeh. You have a nice idea here! I will need to find an 2x for the Fuji AX mount first. |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
Thanks guys |
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Alun Thomas
Joined: 20 Aug 2018 Posts: 628 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Alun Thomas wrote:
As mentioned above, the Domiplan does 'bubble', although not as much as the Fujinon.
It was mounted on a Spiratone 2-3x 'VarXtender' I received with some other order a while back. The Domiplan I only received a few days back, it's the third I've tried, and I can finally see what people have been saying about getting a decent copy of the lens. |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
Not bad at all; The intensity of the bubble phenomenon depends strictly on the light and the subject. To get the best, the ideal is direct sunlight on flowers covered with rain or dew, or Christmas illuminations, etc. |
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kymarto
Joined: 30 Nov 2016 Posts: 406 Location: Portland, OR and Milan, Italy
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:31 am Post subject: |
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kymarto wrote:
Ultrapix wrote: |
Not bad at all; The intensity of the bubble phenomenon depends strictly on the light and the subject. To get the best, the ideal is direct sunlight on flowers covered with rain or dew, or Christmas illuminations, etc. |
Yep. Point source of light works best for bubbles. Here's my vote for the Trioplan killer: Ilex Cinemat 100mm f2.9
#1
Dallmeyer Kinematograph #9 (150mm f4.5)
#1
Not exactly round soap bubbles, but if bright edges are your thing (Dallmeyer Super Six 102mm f1.9)
#1
#2
[img]http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/202212
/10000__DSC0282_1.jpg[/img]
Dallmeyer Super Six 8 inch f2
#1
_________________ Vintage lens aficionado |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
The Dallmeyer is closer to the soap bubbles and you can buy one for the price of a car. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
The Dallmeyer is closer to the soap bubbles and you can buy one for the price of a car. |
Yes, the Dallmeyer in a topic with the words "poor man" in the title |
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