Adapting LF or MF technical cameras to digital cameras

[pandreas68]

Hi,

my work on the Mamiya auto bellows and the comments of Dan_ made me think again in adapting a technical large format or medium format camera to a digital mirrorless camera.

One major point is the typical handgrip of the typical mirrorless cameras such as the Sony alphas. The camera producers currently follow a trend that this handgrip gets bigger and bigger.

I once baught a Linhof Technika 70; these cameras at least to my findings are completly unusable for adaptation if infinity shall be reached.

Dan_ mentioned the Linhof Technikardan. My question is how it is constructed and if the frame for the groundglass can be completely screwed away (without changing or even destroying the camera) in order to create and mount a much smaller frame in a size that the hand grip is not in the way.

Does anybody know this for the Linhof Technikardan, and/or any other technical camera in this style, available used in the market for prices considerably less then 1000Euro? Currently Sinar P / P2 is available quite cheep for some 500Euro including lens, so this may also be a possible candidate if it would be possible to screw away the the frame while everything needed for the settings stays in place.

Changing the frame on the camera side needed of course an adaptation of the bellows. This issue I'd say is solvable, either by using an existing bellows and a light construction e.g. made of 1mm airplane plywood, or a specialized bellows, which might be my choice since most likely a bag bellows would be needed anyway.

Best regards
Andreas

[dickb]

I have been looking at similar setups and as usual every design has its compromises.

I have Minolta and Contax swing/shift bellows, from the same manufacturer as your Mamiya bellows. Those are relatively sturdy, small and lightweight but are very limited in their movements, having only swing and shift in their front standard. Plus you need a fair amount of extension before any movement is possible. I'm looking at using two front standards with some DIY bag belows to get a small sturdy setup with a bit more movements.

I also have a Hama tilt shift bellows, lightweight, compact and with a very wide range of movements but very fiddly, there are frustratingly many tiny knobs that have to be perfectly tight before the whole thing is stable. With the standard bellows you do need a fair bit of extension before movements are possible, I'm considering making a bag bellows for it.

Finally I have a 4x5 Inka CL45 Technikardan type camera, massive and heavy. Lots of movements, but not all geared and with minimal extension the standards interfere with each other when making larger movements.

For me (and perhaps you) the ideal would be fairly compact, decent amount of movements, preferably geared, useable with a minimal amount of extension. Something based on a 6x9 system may be ideal, Arca Swiss comes to mind, but those are very expensive. The Cambo Actus line may be a good compromise, but also at a considerable cost.


Anyway, I wouldn't recommend the Technikardan for your project. Like my CL45 it has large identical L shape front and rear standards that don't allow small movements with little extension without hitting each other. The Sinar P2 has a different system, no L shaped standards but massive ones with all the movements inside the standards themselves. The P2 version is geared, the F version isn't, not sure about the P version. According to people who made such conversions before the gearing of 4x5 cameras may be too coarse for smaller film sizes and especially digital cameras. The Cambo Ultima series may be one the best system, with very precise geared movements if you don't mind the weight and cost, their Actus line is less heavy and bulky, at the cost of limited rear standard movements.

[dan_]

[DConvert]

I've long been planning to fit my digital cameras to my 5x4 Toyo view camera - but have yet to do anything beyond thinking about it.

Current thoughts are to make a open lens board frame with a fabric connector to the body held to the camera by a M42 thread. The camera itself will be supported by an aria/swiss style QR mount.
This should allow any of my interchangeable lens cameras to be used without issues with grips.

Designing the aria support so it can be easily & accurately (all positions must be on the same plane) moved for stitching larger images is my stumbling block. I may end up making a mk1 version that's simply fixed in one place, limiting stitching to the Toyo's movements...

[dickb]

[DConvert]

[kds315*]

Rollei X-ACT has been used successfully by a few people, namely my friend Michael Erlewine for doing his excellent flower work.

[dickb]

[dickb]

[DConvert]

If I mount the standards in opposite orientations I can make quite a wide range of movements without issue but I don't really expect to use the minimum extension anyway. The lenses I have that have good coverage tend to be longer focal lengths (a couple around 200mm cover 5x4 nicely and I think my 150mm componon might be the shortest that does completely) If playing with SLR lenses etc these would almost certainly need to be used for macro, even if mounted inside the bellows (an option that's available for lenses I can get a Cokin adapter on - but that does raise a few potential hazards). I guess a recessed lens board is another option - not something I have a yet.

I'm greedy so would want to have as big an area available as I can.
There is a potential for the image from tilted lenses to be well off the axis so being able to image any of the area inside the standard would be ideal. I'm sure in the majority of shots the area imaged will be substantially lesseven if just to reduce processing time.

I'm sure there are better options for the LF camera, but I have 2 Toyo cameras and a few other spares.

[dickb]

[DConvert]

[dickb]

[DConvert]

[visualopsins]

Certainly not for bif. Just how fast do you expect to make that many digital exposures?

Some kids discovered they could appear twice in the Senior Class panoramic photograph by running from one side to the other faster than the camera could sweep the scene.

Flatbed film scanners can clamp in place of ground glass like great big sensor, easier to align. 8x10 no problem, given enough computer memory.

Smaller high rez c-mount camera on xy rig.

Stitch together a dozen or more 42-62mp images is going to require some RAM, after good alignments.

Are you planning billboards? View from space ads? lol

[dickb]

[dickb]

[DConvert]

Scanners are an interesting option, but not that easy to modify. Many models use 3 colour alternating light sources to get colour in a single pass that doesn't work when fitted to a camera!
For colour images 3 separate scans are required with a different filter for each, as each scan takes several seconds this is every bit as slow as stitching on a rig that allows quick sliding between positions.

I've seen some interesting sea-scapes taken with a scanning back the wave movement gives very different water images in each of the 3 colours while the land portions line up perfectly. The cost of the scanner that's known to work is over £50 too much for the difficulty in moding for me -
I'm not good at soldering and electronics so there's a significant chance the scanner won't work in the end. Pre-made scanning backs tend to be more than I'd pay for a car...

It should be possible to build a functional generic adapter with stuff I have stashed in my workshop / camera gear with no more than £10 worth of extras.

It certainly won't be a fast system to use but large format never is. The attraction is more the movements than the resolution - shooting the image made on the ground glass might even work out to explore these possibilities without the extra DIY which is one of the reasons the project is still just an intellectual exercise.

[visualopsins]

Epson V500 or V600 should be inexpensive, less than $50. One pass, though not terribly fast, I'd guess as fast or faster than any comparably priced xy solution to move camera. More than a few seconds, more like at least a minute if not 2 or 3 depending on size & resolution of scanned area. Can be done without modifying scanner.

My notion is to build nesting wooden boxes for focusing, unmodified scanner in place of film, a process lens with over 24" image circle. Replace the scanner with whiteboard, look through small hole in lens board to focus.

Or a "reversed" document-projector type setup.

[DConvert]

[visualopsins]

[visualopsins]

https://youtu.be/pNEyIt0yqUU

https://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-06/old-flatbed-scanner-50mm-lens-amazing-130-megapixel-scancam/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectese/sets/72157623187612134

[pandreas68]

Hi,

I also noticed the problem of my Mamiya bellows with low possible amout of movements when focussing close to infinity. I finally made a bag bellows as I described here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/home-made-bag-bellows-for-mamiya-645-auto-bellows-t81414.html

One picture showing how it looks like is shown in the thread

http://forum.mflenses.com/technical-camera-mamiya-auto-bellows-645-t81283.html




So the bag bellows solved the problem with movements. My next problem however was which lenses to use. Originally I used The Pentacon Six lenses and this also works, but all P6 lenses are quite heavy.


So I adapted then a solinar 85 to fit into the P6 mount adapter on the Mamiya bellows:




It works quite good and can be used to gain some experience with technical cameras especially swing and tilt:


For rise and fall however a wide angle lense would be helpful and so far I did not find a sufficiently cheap and appropriate one.

Best regards
Andreas

[RokkorDoctor]

Looks like fun.

Making stuff yourself is satisfying. Often cheaper as well.