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200mm-ish for "more" bokeh?
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:00 am    Post subject: 200mm-ish for "more" bokeh? Reply with quote
hello, my current camera is aspc pentax. besides pentax K, it can mount m42 and also nikon ai. yes nikon ai lenses can be directly mounted without adapter.

anyway, my lenses are 35 and the nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI as everyday lens.

for special occaions, I'd like a longer lens for the reach, and also even "better" bokeh than the 105mm. something 200-250mm

any recommendations on something not too heavy and affordable? takumar f4 vs pentacon f4 vs telear-n ? any other suggestions?

any help is greatly appreciated.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Super-Takumar 200mm f4


#1

and Takumar 200mm f3.5
are both good


#2


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Super-Takumar 200mm f4


thanks!
that looks great ! and so cheap on ebay. better multi coated version right?


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's the pentacon multiblades version ,pretty cheap and not bad to try it


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
There's the pentacon multiblades version ,pretty cheap and not bad to try it

thanks kiddo. that pentacnon doesn't look that big. do you know the actual diameter (height/width)? pentaxforums gives me nothing hmmm
would love to know the size compared to takumar


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
zzzxtreme wrote:
Oldhand wrote:
Super-Takumar 200mm f4


thanks!
that looks great ! and so cheap on ebay. better multi coated version right?


Usually the Super Multi Coated or SMC coatings are better of course.
But neither of the images shown above were from lenses that have SMC.
Tom


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a Sun 200mm f/2.8 in M42 which would probably meet most of your requirements, but at 750gm it's getting just a little too heavy to be carried around comfortably.

The solution I often use for "extreme" bokeh is a 135mm lens with a short extension tube. I have a selection, they are all good, but the effects do differ so it can be a case of experimenting to achieve the most pleasing effect, depending on the subject.

Good luck.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Takumars have great Bokeh. The F3.5 is quite long but the F4 is compact enough. Most compact for you would be the Pentax-m 200mm F4. Also to consider Jupiter 21m F4 Great Bokeh but heavy.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
zzzxtreme wrote:
kiddo wrote:
There's the pentacon multiblades version ,pretty cheap and not bad to try it

thanks kiddo. that pentacnon doesn't look that big. do you know the actual diameter (height/width)? pentaxforums gives me nothing hmmm
would love to know the size compared to takumar


150x70 around 600grams also called bokehmonster


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikkors are good


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not exactly affordable and light, but if you want to impress your friends and customers, you might have a look at the Nikkor 200mm Micro f4.
Here are some examples from my Flickr gallery:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wizardofdof/albums/72157707993058125

The old Ais non macro version is also very good.
A good alternative would be the Nikkor 180mm f2.8 (the Ais version is good but I think the AF-D is even better)


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikkor's are much more expensive then pentacon 40-50 € , of course there is a much better option nikkon ED 180 ,but not cheap neither easy to find


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I find legacy zooms are often better at 200mm than primes and you can also find them @F3.5 to F4. Vivitar series one comes to mind. Any Vivitar with a 22xxxx or 28xxxxx serial number is good. SMC Pentax-A 70-210mm is excellent.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This comparison I did of tamrons and vivitars also has test pics at 200mm of a number of 200mm lenses including the Meyer/pentacon, taks..

http://www.groupoids.org.uk/photography/TamronVSvivitar/70-210mm.html

I haven't got round to writing up a conclusion, but one recommendation I can make: the kiron zoomlock is perhaps the most consistent performer and if you look around can be acquired very cheaply. Ideally find one with PKA mount for your pentax.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Nikkor's are much more expensive then pentacon 40-50 € , of course there is a much better option nikkon ED 180 ,but not cheap neither easy to find


Click here to see on Ebay Folks can decide if $60US is "much more expensive". Smile


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 200mm-ish for "more" bokeh? Reply with quote
...

Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
I have a Sun 200mm f/2.8 in M42 which would probably meet most of your requirements, but at 750gm it's getting just a little too heavy to be carried around comfortably.

The solution I often use for "extreme" bokeh is a 135mm lens with a short extension tube. I have a selection, they are all good, but the effects do differ so it can be a case of experimenting to achieve the most pleasing effect, depending on the subject.

Good luck.

short extension tube? never thought of that. My limited experience with extention tubes is it only works with very small objects? I got to check it out


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
The Takumars have great Bokeh. The F3.5 is quite long but the F4 is compact enough. Most compact for you would be the Pentax-m 200mm F4. Also to consider Jupiter 21m F4 Great Bokeh but heavy.


thanks. I do love the built and handling of my sole takumar, the 35mm


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wolan wrote:
Not exactly affordable and light, but if you want to impress your friends and customers, you might have a look at the Nikkor 200mm Micro f4.
Here are some examples from my Flickr gallery:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wizardofdof/albums/72157707993058125

The old Ais non macro version is also very good.
A good alternative would be the Nikkor 180mm f2.8 (the Ais version is good but I think the AF-D is even better)


AF F4D looks exquisite !


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
marcusBMG wrote:
This comparison I did of tamrons and vivitars also has test pics at 200mm of a number of 200mm lenses including the Meyer/pentacon, taks..

http://www.groupoids.org.uk/photography/TamronVSvivitar/70-210mm.html

I haven't got round to writing up a conclusion, but one recommendation I can make: the kiron zoomlock is perhaps the most consistent performer and if you look around can be acquired very cheaply. Ideally find one with PKA mount for your pentax.


there's so many zooms out there it's overwhelming. thanks for posting that link. reading it up now


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 200mm-ish for "more" bokeh? Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
zzzxtreme wrote:
hello, my current camera is aspc pentax. besides pentax K, it can mount m42 and also nikon ai. yes nikon ai lenses can be directly mounted without adapter.

anyway, my lenses are 35 and the nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI as everyday lens.

for special occaions, I'd like a longer lens for the reach, and also even "better" bokeh than the 105mm. something 200-250mm

any recommendations on something not too heavy and affordable? takumar f4 vs pentacon f4 vs telear-n ? any other suggestions?

any help is greatly appreciated.



What do you photograph; people, flowers, people with flowers, cats, birds, landscapes? Is this for indoor or outdoor? What is your working range, less than 12 feet, more? Are you dedicated to shooting wide open or stop down often? Do you want another Sonnar design lens like the Nikkor 105 2.5 AI, and is it the copy with 6 blades or 9 blades?.


I enjoy the results taken with a Takumar Preset 200mm f/3.5 plus shade. It produces creamy bokeh. It is old like your Nikkor. Has a lot of blades when working stopped down. Get a mint copy for US $50-$70. Long in length but light to handle. Cannot focus very close. Probably not the best for macro or flowers but very nice for people.


thanks mate. I USUALLY shoot candid potraits, from shoulder up outdoors, events at skateparks. so I guess, hmmmm, from 5 to 10 meters ?
i always shoot wide open with the nikkor 105. the takumar preset samples do look great. difficult to find any fault with all the suggestions here


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 200mm-ish for "more" bokeh? Reply with quote
...

Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
zzzxtreme wrote:
kypfer wrote:
I have a Sun 200mm f/2.8 in M42 which would probably meet most of your requirements, but at 750gm it's getting just a little too heavy to be carried around comfortably.

The solution I often use for "extreme" bokeh is a 135mm lens with a short extension tube. I have a selection, they are all good, but the effects do differ so it can be a case of experimenting to achieve the most pleasing effect, depending on the subject.

Good luck.

short extension tube? never thought of that. My limited experience with extention tubes is it only works with very small objects? I got to check it out


Most "bokeh" subjects, as I see it, are only a few feet away, with an out-of-focus background disappearing into the distance. With a 12mm extension tube on the back of any 135mm lens the furthest it will focus is about 5ft, so I can place myself so that my subject is around 3-5ft in front of me, move about a bit to get the background looking as I like it, and fire away. At 3ft my APSC Pentax "sees" about a 4 inch wide subject, at 5ft the subject is around a foot across. Measurements may well vary slightly between different lenses, especially regarding the minimum focus distance, I've just made these ball-park tests in my lounge with a Tamron 135mm and a tape measure. I see no practical use in making further tests, you've probably got completely different lenses to me and the numbers will be different if your tube is a 10 or a 15mm rather than my 12mm.

For the few seconds it'll take, check it out, you might like it Wink


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I highly recommend the Nikon 180/2.8 AIS. As someone remarked, the AF180/2.8D is “better”, but based on my experience, it is superior only when I pixel peep for sharpness.

I have both. I use the AFD when I need the autofocus. Otherwise, I prefer the AIS. Why?
1) The AFD is sharper, but not enough to make a difference, unless you pixel peep.
2) The AIS has *much* less chromatic aberration. Under harsh conditions that will give barely visible purple fringing with the AIS, the AFD will appear to have purple neon along harsh edges. It’s VERY distracting.
3) The AFD is surprisingly easy to use manual focus, much better than most autofocus lenses. But the AIS focus is wonderful...it’s fairly easy to achieve critical focus, and it feels as good as my Zeiss 135/2.

And the bokeh is very good.


PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
I find legacy zooms are often better at 200mm than primes and you can also find them @F3.5 to F4. Vivitar series one comes to mind. Any Vivitar with a 22xxxx or 28xxxxx serial number is good. SMC Pentax-A 70-210mm is excellent.

I've only had a couple very old 200mm primes that weren't bad, but nothing special either. I've had, much like you, better "luck" with 70-210mm zooms. My favorite is the Vivitar 70-210 2.8-4 (Komine version). I also liked the Tamron 19AH and, to a lesser degree, the Vivitar 70-210 3.5 (Kiron version).
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