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Minolta 24mm f2.8 on sony a7 series
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Minolta 24mm f2.8 on sony a7 series Reply with quote

Hi all,
Do you have any experiences with Minolta (MD) 24mm f2.8 on Sony a7 series especially a7sii for video/filming purposes (MF)?
I already own Minolta 50mm f1.7, 35-105mm 3.5-4.5, 100mm f2.8 RS macro so I am wondering whether the 24mm has the same colors rendition like the others...

I have a limited budget (<200 euros) and need a wide angle lens (<=24mm) as fast as possible for the a7sii.
Do you have better alternatives / suggestions than the Minolta 24mm (eventually from other brands, zoom...) ?

How it performs in comparison with the Canon (n)FD 24mm f2.8 ?

I am open to your suggestions, Thank you all!


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artaphot has a comparison of vintage 24 mm lenses on the A7II: http://artaphot.ch/systemuebergreifend/objektive/450-24mm

The Minolta MD-III ("plain MD", last generation MF lens) is certainly the best MF 24 mm by Minolta. It's also one of the best lenses - if not the overall best - in this Artaphot comparison. If you already have the Minolta adapter and definitely want manual focus, I would go with this lens. I can't comment on color rendition, though.

A modern alternative would be the newly released Samyang 24 mm f/2.8 FE, but it will intially cost around 300 €.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both Minolta MD W ROKKOR 24mm 2.8 & Canon FD 24mm 2.8 SSC on A7

I have no preference.

Both are sharp in the center, less in the corner.

The Samyang 24 mm f/2.8 FE seems to be a real bargain !


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Rokkor MDII and the Canon FDn .
In my opinion, the Canon is a better lens. The sharoness is a little bit better in the center and the performance is more consistant through the frame. ( FF 24Mpx) .
The rendition of the Rokkor is nevertheless quite nice.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both should be on a similar level regarding to the sharpness. Just be careful and get the last designs - MD III in case of Minolta and nFD for Canon.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The earlier Minolta 2.8/24mm versions (MC-X, MD-I, MD-II) have more corner problems than the last version (MD-III). The Canon new FD performs similarily as the Minolta MD-III, but the Minolta barrel mechanically is superior to the Canon nFD. And: The Minolta coatings result in more vivid colors.

I just have tested a series of several vintage 85mm lenses (Canon FD 1.8/85mm SSC, nFD 1.8/85mm, Konica 1.8/85mm, Mamiya Sekor C 1.9/80mm, Minolta MD 1.7/85mm and 2/85mm, Nikkor K 1.8/85mm). While their basic design is similar, wide open the Minolta MD 1.7/85mm and 2/85mm clearly are the sharpest of the bunch. At f8, the Konica and the Mamiya have no visible CAs.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all.

According to you, it seems that the Minolta 24mm f2.8 MD-III is probably the right way to go. Is 200 euros for this lens (in good conditions) a fair price ?

Maybe I should wait to see how the new Samyang lens performs against the Minolta...in the same time, I am gonna use this lens mainly for video work and I don't know how smooth is the Samyang's focus ring.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nouh wrote:
Thank you all.

According to you, it seems that the Minolta 24mm f2.8 MD-III is probably the right way to go. Is 200 euros for this lens (in good conditions) a fair price ?

Maybe I should wait to see how the new Samyang lens performs against the Minolta...in the same time, I am gonna use this lens mainly for video work and I don't know how smooth is the Samyang's focus ring.


The MD-III 24mm/F2.8 would be definitely my recommendation and max. 200 EUR is still somehow reasonable for that excellent lens in good condition.

Maybe the Samyang isn't bad as well but the mechanical quality of the Minolta lens is by far superior. Samyangs are known to have a rather broad sample variation and you may get a lemon even if bought brand new. With Minolta you are rather on the safe side in that respect.

At least I would never change my MD 24/2.8 to a Samyang lens.

Just my 2 cents...


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some quick and dirty examples from my Sony A7R2 shot some minutes ago. Converted and downsized in Lightroom. Existing lens profile enabled.

Minolta MD 24mm/F2.8 (Version MD III) on a cheap Chinese MD-NEX adapter. Pleas click on pictures for best quality viewing.

Infinity wide open at F2.8; i.e. worst quality:



Close focus apprx. 30cm at F5.6 for better DOF:



IMHO there is not much room for improvement. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
Some quick and dirty examples from my Sony A7R2 shot some minutes ago. Converted and downsized in Lightroom. Existing lens profile enabled.

Minolta MD 24mm/F2.8 (Version MD III) on a cheap Chinese MD-NEX adapter. Pleas click on pictures for best quality viewing.


Thanks for these fresh photos.
By chance do you have any photos where to sun is in the frame or toward a strong light ? I would like to see flairs produced by this lens in 'extreme' conditions. Thanks.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nouh wrote:
Thanks for these fresh photos.
By chance do you have any photos where to sun is in the frame or toward a strong light ? I would like to see flairs produced by this lens in 'extreme' conditions. Thanks.


You're welcome. Can certainly do that later this afternoon when the sun will be in the required position.
I will post them thereafter.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nouh wrote:


According to you, it seems that the Minolta 24mm f2.8 MD-III is probably the right way to go. Is 200 euros for this lens (in good conditions) a fair price ?



In my opinion that's far too much. I go my (pristine) sample for less than CHF 50.-- / EUR 40.--; and i have seen several others going in the CHF 100.--/ EUR 80.-- range.

Stephan


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, I paid 80 euros pristine but saw 2 going for a bit more (say 100-120 euros before I got mine (march 2018)

So, I assume 80-120 from private seller, probably a bit more from shops


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Nouh wrote:


According to you, it seems that the Minolta 24mm f2.8 MD-III is probably the right way to go. Is 200 euros for this lens (in good conditions) a fair price ?



In my opinion that's far too much. I go my (pristine) sample for less than CHF 50.-- / EUR 40.--; and i have seen several others going in the CHF 100.--/ EUR 80.-- range.

Stephan


Sorry to say that, Stephan. But you are definitely living in "Cockaigne" (Schlaraffenland) when it comes to used camera gear; particularly when you compare the average income to the actual going prices. Outside Switzerland I doubt that you'll find this lens for less than EUR 100 in Europe nowadays. Particularly from professional dealers in pristine condition with certain guarantees the actual selling price goes more towards 200 EUR.....

Just my 2 cents.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:

You're welcome. Can certainly do that later this afternoon when the sun will be in the required position.
I will post them thereafter.

Great, thanks!


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
stevemark wrote:
Nouh wrote:


According to you, it seems that the Minolta 24mm f2.8 MD-III is probably the right way to go. Is 200 euros for this lens (in good conditions) a fair price ?



In my opinion that's far too much. I go my (pristine) sample for less than CHF 50.-- / EUR 40.--; and i have seen several others going in the CHF 100.--/ EUR 80.-- range.

Stephan


Sorry to say that, Stephan. But you are definitely living in "Cockaigne" (Schlaraffenland) when it comes to used camera gear; particularly when you compare the average income to the actual going prices. Outside Switzerland I doubt that you'll find this lens for less than EUR 100 in Europe nowadays. Particularly from professional dealers in pristine condition with certain guarantees the actual selling price goes more towards 200 EUR.....

Just my 2 cents.


It seems that MD-III is quite rare to find, maybe it has another name ? I said that because the average price I found (on the internet) is 200 euros.
The AF version is cheaper and can be found for about 100 euros. Does it perform like the MD-III ? anyway its focus ring is too small for manual work like the 50mm f/1.7...


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
...

Sorry to say that, Stephan. But you are definitely living in "Cockaigne" (Schlaraffenland) when it comes to used camera gear

...


While the intention was likely clever humor, this comment is litterally quite nasty and mean. Imho, of course.

While the samples available now are averaging $200, there will be better deals for those who wait. This is common in market for many years.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nouh wrote:
It seems that MD-III is quite rare to find, maybe it has another name ? I said that because the average price I found (on the internet) is 200 euros.
The AF version is cheaper and can be found for about 100 euros. Does it perform like the MD-III ? anyway its focus ring is too small for manual work like the 50mm f/1.7...


Well, the MD III version is quite easy to identify because it's the only version without "Rokkor" in it's markings and has additionally the locking slider to keep the aperture closed at F22 when using on program automatic cameras like the Minolta X-700.

I have the AF version as well. It shares the same 8/8 construction and performs quite similar, at least on APS-C. However, I didn't compare them on my A7R2 up to now.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
Nouh wrote:
Thanks for these fresh photos.
By chance do you have any photos where to sun is in the frame or toward a strong light ? I would like to see flairs produced by this lens in 'extreme' conditions. Thanks.


You're welcome. Can certainly do that later this afternoon when the sun will be in the required position.
I will post them thereafter.


Here we go with maximum sun within the frame.

Same as before both fully open at F2.8:





And stopped down to F5.6:



PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:

Same as before both fully open at F2.8:





And stopped down to F5.6:



Thank your sir for your time and sharing those pictures, I appreciate that.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to comment on one quirk of the Minolta 24 MD-III in my first post: I have acquired three of these lenses in the last year and all of them had very stiff focusing. This is quite unusual for Minoltas and I suspect it has something to do with the specific lubricant used in this lens, but I'm not totally sure. As the 24 mm is a bit harder to disassemble than other Minoltas, I have returned all of them due to this problem.

Price wise, I got the lenses for around 120-140 € from private sellers. Commercial offers are currently closer to 200 €, which - in my opinion - is quite a steep price for this relatively common lens.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VLR wrote:
I forgot to comment on one quirk of the Minolta 24 MD-III in my first post: I have acquired three of these lenses in the last year and all of them had very stiff focusing. This is quite unusual for Minoltas and I suspect it has something to do with the specific lubricant used in this lens, but I'm not totally sure. As the 24 mm is a bit harder to disassemble than other Minoltas, I have returned all of them due to this problem.


That's really interesting. I've got many MD lenses because I'm on MF Minolta since the early 1980's and never ever had any comparable problem with these lenses; not even if not used for several years. Maybe this stiff focusing problem is caused by wrong storage. Typically this is a common problem with some other brands....
However, out of curiosity I've just compared some MD III lenses with some older variants and indeed the MD I and II ones are a little bit smoother to focus in comparison. Never realized that before.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
tb_a wrote:
...

Sorry to say that, Stephan. But you are definitely living in "Cockaigne" (Schlaraffenland) when it comes to used camera gear

...


While the intention was likely clever humor, this comment is litterally quite nasty and mean. Imho, of course.


OK, at least you recognized my intention. Maybe the Google translation of Schlaraffenland to "Cockaigne" has some slightly other meaning in the English-speaking world, I don't know.
Nevertheless, I think Stephan got it right as in our German-speaking world "Schlaraffenland" is rather harmless and means that everything is available very easily for everybody. Something like paradise. If you take into account that the average income in Switzerland is more than double compared to Austria and the used camera gear is half the price then it's in comparison simply Schlaraffenland or Paradise for lens collectors at least compared to my country and most other countries in Europe.
That's a simple observation and not nasty at all.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
.

While the samples available now are averaging $200, there will be better deals for those who wait. This is common in market for many years.

You're right. in the past I found a finished offer of this lens on Ebay at 100 euros, that is half the current price. I believe that if I have found it at 50 euros I wouldn't hesitate that much to buy one for what it has to offer and considering what I would use it for.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the MD-II and MD-III. Both are good. They're different lenses, but perform very similarly in my experience (though I haven't tested thouroughly). I prefer the MD-III because it's smaller and to me it looks nicer but I can recommend both equally. No problems with stiff focusing with either of them (or any other Minolta lens for that matter).