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Nouh
Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 18
Location: France
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Nouh wrote:
So now I am little confused...
I feel like I have to buy both MD-III for video work and AF version for stills. I didnt' know that thses two share the same optical design.
Do I have to assume that these two have the same image quality and color rendition ?
If yes, then maybe I should get firstly the AF lens version (which is half the price by the way) and live with its focus ring size until I find a more elegant solution to use it for video work such as a follow focus ring or something... |
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 298
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Yes these manual focus are metal and glass while the AF are probably plastic. May explain the price difference...
_________________
Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
| Nouh wrote: |
So now I am little confused...
I feel like I have to buy both MD-III for video work and AF version for stills. I didnt' know that thses two share the same optical design.
Do I have to assume that these two have the same image quality and color rendition ?
If yes, then maybe I should get firstly the AF lens version (which is half the price by the way) and live with its focus ring size until I find a more elegant solution to use it for video work such as a follow focus ring or something... |
No reason for confusion. 
As already stated before, both lenses perform quite similar. At least on APS-C I've shown that already here: http://forum.mflenses.com/24mm-lens-comparison-minolta-pentax-tokina-t76783.html
The MD variant is simply better to adapt to other cameras as well as the AF version doesn't make much sense on other bodies than Minolta and Sony A-mount ones for proper aperture control. On the A7 series I would therefore recommend to use the LA-EA4 adapter for that reason. That may explain the price difference. My special adapter used for the shown comparison (Minolta AF to Leica M) only allows to open or to close the aperture without knowing the actual aperture.
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Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
[quote="tb_a"]
| visualopsins wrote: |
| tb_a wrote: |
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Sorry to say that, Stephan. But you are definitely living in "Cockaigne" (Schlaraffenland) when it comes to used camera gear
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...
Nevertheless, I think Stephan got it right as in our German-speaking world "Schlaraffenland" is rather harmless and means that everything is available very easily for everybody. Something like paradise. If you take into account that the average income in Switzerland is more than double compared to Austria and the used camera gear is half the price then it's in comparison simply Schlaraffenland or Paradise for lens collectors at least compared to my country and most other countries in Europe.
That's a simple observation and not nasty at all. |
Don't worry, i got it right
The MD-III and the Minolta AF 2.8/24mm have not the same optical construction; the AF lens is a completely new computation, and it share the basic construction with the AF 2.8/20mm. Both these lenses have a rear focusing system.
The MD-III focusing is in fact a bit stiff - especially compared to the earlier MC-X 2.8/24mm. Maybe increased precision (=less lubricant), probably also because their focusing is "alu-alu", not "alu-brass" as with the MC 2.8/24mm.
Stephan
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www.artaphot.ch |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| The MD-III and the Minolta AF 2.8/24mm have not the same optical construction; the AF lens is a completely new computation, and it share the basic construction with the AF 2.8/20mm. Both these lenses have a rear focusing system |
Interesting. The construction drawings of both 24mm MD-III and AF lenses look very similar (8 lenses in 8 groups) whereas the 20mm lens is a 10/9 construction. Anyway, IMHO their performance is quite comparable...
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Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| tb_a wrote: |
| stevemark wrote: |
| The MD-III and the Minolta AF 2.8/24mm have not the same optical construction; the AF lens is a completely new computation, and it shares the basic construction with the AF 2.8/20mm. Both these lenses have a rear focusing system |
Interesting. The construction drawings of both 24mm MD-III and AF lenses look very similar (8 lenses in 8 groups) whereas the 20mm lens is a 10/9 construction. Anyway, IMHO their performance is quite comparable... |
I'll check the technical details later (glass used, calculated performance and the like). The MD-III focuses by moving the entire lens (albeit with floating element); both the AF 2.8/24 and 2.8/20 use only the rear part for focusing. The front part does not move at all!
Stephan
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Nouh
Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 18
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Nouh wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
I'll check the technical details later (glass used, calculated performance and the like). The MD-III focuses by moving the entire lens (albeit with floating element); both the AF 2.8/24 and 2.8/20 use only the rear part for focusing. The front part does not move at all!
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Just to confirm, the size of the 24mm AF version lens doesn't change when focusing, right ? because my current Minolta AF 50mm f1.7 does.
Generally this feature is appreciated for video work with a gimbal.
Last edited by Nouh on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 298
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Just to show my ignorance. I have both manual MDII and MDIII. While I understand the MDII has a floating element (meaning the front turns with focusing while the back moves backward and forward when focusing but does NOT turn, is it the correct definition of floating element?), The MDIII seems to be one block going forward and backward without turning when focusing. Is it still floating element? I clearly am not clear on the definition...
_________________
Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
In order to make a long story short I just compared both MD-III and AF lenses on my A7R2 and can confirm now that they are performing nearly identical. The AF version seems to be the slightly better one as the vignetting on the MD-III is more pronounced fully open at F2.8 (easily correctable in Lightroom, lens profile exists). However, stopped down a little bit those lenses are definitely indistinguishable. Even the bokeh on short distance is identical. Both lenses perform really excellent and deliver razor sharp pictures already fully open from edge to edge on 42MP/FF. The AF version in combination with the LA-EA4 adapter is more joy to use as AF and electronic communication with the lens is fully supported (full EXIF information incl. operating aperture available).
Conclusion: My MD-III lens goes back into my repository.
_________________
Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
| Nouh wrote: |
| Just to confirm, the size of the 24mm AF version lens doesn't change when focusing, right ? |
That's right.
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Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Nouh
Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 18
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Nouh wrote:
| tb_a wrote: |
In order to make a long story short I just compared both MD-III and AF lenses on my A7R2 and can confirm now that they are performing nearly identical. The AF version seems to be the slightly better one as the vignetting on the MD-III is more pronounced fully open at F2.8 (easily correctable in Lightroom, lens profile exists). However, stopped down a little bit those lenses are definitely indistinguishable. Even the bokeh on short distance is identical. Both lenses perform really excellent and deliver razor sharp pictures already fully open from edge to edge on 42MP/FF. The AF version in combination with the LA-EA4 adapter is more joy to use as AF and electronic communication with the lens is fully supported (full EXIF information incl. operating aperture available).
Conclusion: My MD-III lens goes back into my repository. |
Thanks sir for your time, I appreciated that! I already have LA-EA4 adapter when I switched from my A-mount camera.
I'll just assume that theses lenses perform similarly on the less demanding 12mpx a7sii censor. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| Antoine wrote: |
| Just to show my ignorance. I have both manual MDII and MDIII. While I understand the MDII has a floating element (meaning the front turns with focusing while the back moves backward and forward when focusing but does NOT turn, is it the correct definition of floating element?), The MDIII seems to be one block going forward and backward without turning when focusing. Is it still floating element? I clearly am not clear on the definition... |
"flating element" (or "floating focusing", as Minolta called it) does not necessarily mean a rotating front element. Early "floating focusing" lenses (e. g. Minolta MC 2.8/24mm) often do have a rotating front element, since this facilitates the mechanical construction of the barrel. Later (since a rotating floating element is not ideal for polarizing filters!) often a non-rotating front element was used.
Stephan
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 298
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Thanks Steve
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Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:56 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
I have checked some information about different Minolta 24mm prototypes in the 1980-1985 time range.
From a simple side-by-side comparition it is obvious that the MD-III 2.8/24mm and the AF 2.8/24mm do not share the same optical construction; the front element of the AF lens is much bigger, and focusing is different (rear focusing, as said before).
Both lenses are [8/8] formulas, and both are made from very similar glasses. Since the AF version relies on focusing by moving the rear six lenses only (the two front lenses are stationary), the correction of the two groups (moving vs. non-moving) has to be done in a different way, compared to the MD-III version (where all groups are moving).
It may be interesting to know that Minolta had several 2.8/24mm prototypes with a quite complicated independent movement of three or even four groups before developing the rather simply rear focusing solution of the AF 2.8/24mm and 2.8/20mm lenses.
Stephan
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Nouh
Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 18
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Nouh wrote:
Hi all,
So, I bought the Minolta 24mm AF version to use on the a7sii and I am pleased with results so far. I just have to be careful when manual focusing to avoid having a part of my fingers in the shot.
Also, I would like to share with you a footage (preview) that I shot using mostly this lens during a trip.
Do you think that the footage still has a vintage look even after the color grading ? what about the overall footage quality / details ? thanks.
https://youtu.be/p6mB4ycQ-Ok |
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