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Russian m39 to eos?
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Russian m39 to eos? Reply with quote

Quick question... are there any adapters available that can achieve infinity (or past infinity) focus on EOS? My understanding is that the Russian m39 is different from the Leica m39.

-thanks in Advance,
1kgcoffee


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Russian M39 as used on some old Zenit cameras has the same register (lens to film distance) as a normal M42.
So if you can't find a M39 to EOS adaptor then get an M39 to M42 adaptor and use it with an M42 to EOS, this will give infinity focus.

I've just looked on Ebay for M39 to EOS and there are loads of them although as they list them wrongly as Leica M39 then I guess there isn't any guarantee that they will focus to infinity with a proper M39 lens.


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought an m39 to sony alpha adapter long time ago. It is more or less as thick as a standard m42 adapter, so it is clearly for m39 slr mount, and not leica thread.
But all my m39 lenses fall quite short of infinity with it (my tair 11 doesn't go past 20 meters, for example), so it is definitely too thick.


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramon wrote:
The Russian M39 as used on some old Zenit cameras has the same register (lens to film distance) as a normal M42.
So if you can't find a M39 to EOS adaptor then get an M39 to M42 adaptor and use it with an M42 to EOS, this will give infinity focus.

That's not quite true, M42 register is 45.5mm, Soviet SLR M39 is 45.2mm, so using an M42 adapter and M39->M42 ring should put the M39 lens too far from the sensor; therefore infinity problems are possible and I have experienced them myself.

I don't know if there are any particular kinds of M42 adapters that are likely to be too thin and therefore better for M39 SLR lenses. I did get an M39-EOS adapter once, but it was even thicker / worse for infinity than my existing M42 adapter and M39->M42 ring combo :/


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I'm thinking about it, I should try an m39-m42 stacked over my m42-nex adapter, as most m42-nex adapters are slightly thinner than perfect and allow lenses to focus past infinity, probably enough to compensate for that .3 millimiters difference.


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aanything wrote:
Now that I'm thinking about it, I should try an m39-m42 stacked over my m42-nex adapter, as most m42-nex adapters are slightly thinner than perfect and allow lenses to focus past infinity, probably enough to compensate for that .3 millimiters difference.

I have a M39 Helios 44 does not hit infinity with a M39 to M42 stacked over my m42-nex adapter. I apply some force to turn the lens into a aluminum m42-nex adapter. Finally, some of the metals on the m42-nex adapter comes off allowing the Helios 44 focus to infinity. Wink


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinV wrote:
Ramon wrote:
The Russian M39 as used on some old Zenit cameras has the same register (lens to film distance) as a normal M42.
So if you can't find a M39 to EOS adaptor then get an M39 to M42 adaptor and use it with an M42 to EOS, this will give infinity focus.

That's not quite true, M42 register is 45.5mm, Soviet SLR M39 is 45.2mm, so using an M42 adapter and M39->M42 ring should put the M39 lens too far from the sensor; therefore infinity problems are possible and I have experienced them myself.



Well your post intrigued me so I checked a few sites, including this one:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Lens_mounts

and they all gave 45.46 for both M42 and M39.
Well I happen to have a Zenit 3M with an M39 mount sitting on the shelf I thought I would measure it and found that mine measures 45.18 !

Who would have believed it, incorrect information on the internet, what is this world coming to Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you were able to confirm it on an actual camera, I have only read about the difference and experienced infinity problems with M39 lenses on M42 adapters.

I have only tried a couple of M39->(M42->)EOS adapter setups, but so far no luck. I do have two different M42 adapters for NEX and one of them is so short that it lets M39 SLR lenses focus even slightly beyond infinity.

On a silver M39 Helios 44 it was also possible to remove a shim and get infinity focus with an M42-EOS adapter. Not sure if that might create mirror clearance issues on FF cameras, though, since the whole optical block is moved slightly backward. But one could have the same problem with a thinner adapter.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was two differens m39 lens tipe. First like leica m39 from rangefinder cameras and second from rare first models of zenit slr. So some of them will fit trought m39-m42 and m42-eos adapters and some not. 0.3mm difference is not problem)


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also some rangefinder lenses possible to convert to m42. Jupiter 9, jupiter 11. I have converted last succesfully, but it was hard to do if you didn't have lathe)))


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are four M39 standards: Each with a different Flange focal distance

Leica (LTM 39) the same FFD of 28.8mm this includes Russian, Periflex and Canon Rangefinder lenses
Braun (B39) Longer FFD of 44mm
Russian SLR (M39) 45.46mm
Enlarger lenses. No standard FFD.

If yours is from a Zenit 3M it will be the third standard. You can get an adapter as others here have suggested. Russian SLR is about the same as Pentax M42.

Anything else will not reach infinity - well the Braun will but there is no commercial adapter.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

philslizzy wrote:

Russian SLR (M39) 45.46mm

I'll point out again that this is not correct, Soviet SLR M39 is 45.2mm. Ramon above was kind enough to confirm it on an actual Zenit 3M.

Here's a couple of documents from zenitcamera.com, old Soviet GOST standard:

http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-gost10332-63.html (see the second table there - M39 - 45,2 0,03)

and a later update that mentions the old mount as M391 рабочее расстояние (working distance) 45,20,03 and that it is to be replaced by the newer M42 45,5 0,02 standard:

http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/misc/letter-mop-19061968-182.html

Supposedly this was to take effect from Jan 1st, 1969, so 1968 was the last year for Soviet M39 SLRs.

I also have at least one Soviet-era book that mentions the problem of adapting M39 SLR lenses to newer M42 bodies and suggests removing 0.3mm of material from the old lenses to enable infinity focus Smile


PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinV wrote:
philslizzy wrote:

Russian SLR (M39) 45.46mm

I'll point out again that this is not correct, Soviet SLR M39 is 45.2mm. Ramon above was kind enough to confirm it on an actual Zenit 3M.



I'm sorry I rely on published information on the internet. I already know that the Altix FFD is not as it's listed. I should know better but that info is whats out there.

However the lens will focus on a little past infinity. This could be corrected by making a paper shim.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am bumping this thread because I just purchased A Jupiter-11 M39 lens, for my Caon 60d. Stupidly I assumed it would just be a case of getting an adapter...

So I assume this is Russian m39, and the regular m39 to EOS adapters on Ebay may not work with infinity focus. I did read somewhere else about a proper M39 staright to EOS adapter, but there were no links.

Can anybody confirm that there is a straight adapter ring solution, and if so, where to buy it? (and if not, what should I do instead? Very Happy)

Thank you!!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bernhardas wrote:
you use a normal M42 adapter and get a m39 -> m42 ring. That is an insert that gets screwed into the M42 adapter.

Then you have the M42 register with a M39 mount exactly what you need.

Very very cheap as well.


Ohhh what a great concept! Is there a special term for this ring? Is it like this?

(Super thanks btw, very helpful Very Happy )


PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudolfkremers wrote:


Ohhh what a great concept! Is there a special term for this ring? Is it like this?



Yes, this is the m39-m42 adapter ring


PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a internet photo of two types of Jupiter 11. The one on the right is a SLR lens, it came in M39 and M42. It will fit the Canon and you should get infinity, the one on the left is a rangefinder version. It too will fit but macro only. There are black versions too, but the barrel shape is the giveaway.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:50 am    Post subject: OMG...I just realized Reply with quote

I ordered an M39 Tair-11 133mm f/2.8 lens... after reading this thread, I realized that it may not work with my 5D2! Sad

I do have a cheaply made M42-EOS adapter that is thinner than proper specification. Maybe that will work? But would the lens interfere with the mirror?

Has anyone successfully mounted/used a Tair-11 via M39 - M42 adapter ring + M42 - EOS adapter? Please...someone say yes...anyone?


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once I bought cheap mint Tair 133/2.8 but M39 I gave to a mechanic to pimp the infinity which works probably better now, but the infinity is not 100% yet

Don't remember any other details though, I barely use the lens and basically don't need infinity at all at those long(er) lenses as I shoot either butterflies or portraits with

But I do like the M39 mount, as the lens tend to be slightly cheaper and makes me want relevant adapters as well, which is kind of a good thing, because then you're prepared for more lens you buy in the future


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting....

Something I don't understand:

EOS flange is 44mm away from the film plane, Russian M39 is 45.2mm.
So theoretically if the M39-M42 ring sits flush, my piece of crap undersized M42 adapter (which measures 1.2mm thick) would allow infinity focus? Or is mirror clearance the issue for infinity?

Can't wait until I receive the lens but at the same time it's like waiting for a disappointment to land in my lap. lol


PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Tair 11 133mm also does not reach infinity, not even stopped down to F8. Just bokeh shots for it then it can go no further into the mount. Unless back part of the lens with the m39 screw can be replaced by a part with a m42 screw that brings the lens 0.25 mm closer to the sensor.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
My Tair 11 133mm also does not reach infinity, not even stopped down to F8. Just bokeh shots for it then it can go no further into the mount. Unless back part of the lens with the m39 screw can be replaced by a part with a m42 screw that brings the lens 0.25 mm closer to the sensor.


The Tair 11, Helios 40, Helios 44-2, Jupiter 6, Mir 1, all have an adjustment shim for infinity, this can be filed down so they ll reach infinity, but i warn you after this the various marking on the lens won t be alligned anymore (thought this can be corrected also).


PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a bunch of Russian lenses with the Zenith m39 mount (Helios 40, 44-2, Jupiter 6, Tair 11, Mir 1), i have only a film camera with a M42 mount (putting money aside to get a Sony A7mk2), i bought a set of 20 m39 to M42 rings, each ring gives a slightly different result when i mount them, only with very few the lens will allign perfectly, The ones where the allignement is too short can sometimes be fixed (sand off a bit the part that is in contact with the adapter ), the ones that go over it (thus the lens theoretically will focus past infinity) can be useful too.

Add to this loose tolerances of the rings (and some adapters) the fact that all these lenses have an adjudtement shim inside and where calibrated many years ago. For someone working with lenses the adjustement shimss are useful, as they can be filed down a bit, which will allow to reach infinity, but it s a job for someone with a bit of experience.

Tomas


PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomasg wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
My Tair 11 133mm also does not reach infinity, not even stopped down to F8. Just bokeh shots for it then it can go no further into the mount. Unless back part of the lens with the m39 screw can be replaced by a part with a m42 screw that brings the lens 0.25 mm closer to the sensor.


The Tair 11, Helios 40, Helios 44-2, Jupiter 6, Mir 1, all have an adjustment shim for infinity, this can be filed down so they ll reach infinity, but i warn you after this the various marking on the lens won t be alligned anymore (thought this can be corrected also).


Is there a tutorial somewhere? It seems to me the markings are already off because the lens is being used on slightly longer flange distance. So infinity is really 25 meters. It would just make the lens focus past infinity in an old m39 body. (which I won't be doing anyway).