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MF vs AF
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: MF vs AF Reply with quote




Is it safe to say that i rather stick with MF (Manual Focus) lenses due to the fact that i do not have to worry about certain issues like the error that i typically get on a AF (Auto-Focus) lens when the DSLR Cameras decides to show a pop-up window on my LCD screen notifying me that it cannot communicate with lens because is either dirty or damaged and to be fair i think i can understand this to a certain degree because you all have seen that little golden chip behind the mount of each AF lens ?? well by now you all know that chip is what communicates with the Camera itself and thats why you can Auto-Focus. Many have found work arounds to this problem and in some cases people have used a rubber like those seen on pencils and luckily they have managed to fix the issue but this does not apply to everyone. Sadly i have had this problem already with 4 lenses of mine, My Tokina Zoom Lens, Canon Zoom Lens, Tamron Zoom Lens and last but not least it has also happened on a Sigma Zoom Lens and this is just frustrating.

Am i wrong for saying that i rather have MF lenses than AF lenses ?

Is it ok to say that alot of MF lenses are cheaper than certain AF lenses but yet they are superior than them in quality ?

I will really love to see what is the general opinion of the community on this topic.

THANKS!


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a Pentax (K200D) camera I have never seen an error message.I just switch every setting to M F and forget about it....unless I bump the dial and it blinks at me.
No you are not wrong in saying you prefer MF over AF.

I will be interested to see the responses to this question
Quote:
Is it ok to say that alot of MF lenses are cheaper than certain AF lenses but yet they are superior than them in quality ?


I personally don't buy MF lenses because they are superior or for that matter less superior than AF lenses. I buy them for Character,the feel of them in my hands,the look of them...and most of them fit in my budget. Very Happy

Old lenses on New cameras = the best of both worlds.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes -- safe to say.

No -- personal preference shared by all(?) mflenses members.

Less expensive, yes, but no, not superior yet not much inferior.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mo wrote:
Having a Pentax (K200D) camera I have never seen an error message.I just switch every setting to M F and forget about it....unless I bump the dial and it blinks at me.
No you are not wrong in saying you prefer MF over AF.

I will be interested to see the responses to this question
Quote:
Is it ok to say that alot of MF lenses are cheaper than certain AF lenses but yet they are superior than them in quality ?


I personally don't buy MF lenses because they are superior or for that matter less superior than AF lenses. I buy them for Character,the feel of them in my hands,the look of them...and most of them fit in my budget. Very Happy

Old lenses on New cameras = the best of both worlds.



Perfect answer, wow you blew my mind away with what you just said. I like it because its a humble yet direct honest answer. +1


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Yes -- safe to say.

No -- personal preference shared by all(?) mflenses members.

Less expensive, yes, but no, not superior yet not much inferior.



Well said. It seems that at the end of the day its really more about what you like and what makes you feel comfortable.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mo wrote:
Having a Pentax (K200D) camera I have never seen an error message.I just switch every setting to M F and forget about it....unless I bump the dial and it blinks at me.

Closest thing Pentax has to that error is F--, meaning it doesn't see the A contacts, it leaves it up to the user to know what to do about it instead of spelling it out.

Leaving the K200D in MF all the time keeps you from being able to use the catch in focus feature, which is very handy. Leave the switch on AF, hold down the shutter button and turn the ring, when it sees it is in focus it will take the shot.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my 2 cents.
1) Yes I prefer to have MF lenses because they will last longer and I am not tied down to a particular system.
2) IQ-wise it depends on what you compare to what.
3) Money-wise, it's usually cheaper to get good IQ with MF lenses, UWA being the possible exception.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1.
AF only to coverage an event, if really needed. I may use AF less than once a year, but still keep a minimum set.

#2.
Some AF lenses are newer and may not found for MF equivalent, and vice versa.
Example AF: Sigma 4.5 circular FE HSM, Sonnar T* 135mm f/1.8 ZA - MF: pen F, leica, shift and tilt lenses.

MF can be cheaper/bargains/give-away-prices, but not always. Some of MF lenses are better, but not always. MF can be expensive if they produced in small quantity/collector value, they don't have to be 'superior'. Some low light is only made in MF.

#3.
My dslr suffers with AF accuracy, I sent it to guarantee repair 4 mnd before the guarantee ran out, and got complete new electronic replaced. Then I spend the last months to test run the AF. Otherwise, I don't buy more AF than what I already have. Same as many members here, I use MF for characters and their unique properties. I have 1 AF in 50mm, but 10+ in MF.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're two different ways for shooting. Sometimes - for someone - AF is necessary, sometimes it's not only unnecessary, but also annoying.
MF lenses have usually better iq/price ratio, but they can have issue that newer technologies solved easily (first that comes to mind is the coatings), and... They do not focus automatically.

So it's really all down to what one wants to shoot, and how he enjoys better shooting it.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliott wrote:
mo wrote:
Having a Pentax (K200D) camera I have never seen an error message.I just switch every setting to M F and forget about it....unless I bump the dial and it blinks at me.

Closest thing Pentax has to that error is F--, meaning it doesn't see the A contacts, it leaves it up to the user to know what to do about it instead of spelling it out.

Leaving the K200D in MF all the time keeps you from being able to use the catch in focus feature, which is very handy. Leave the switch on AF, hold down the shutter button and turn the ring, when it sees it is in focus it will take the shot.



Thanks for that tip,i will check it out.
I don't tend to explore the cameras finer points, once I have worked out what I need (in terms of settings) I tend to stay there... Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't use {OPINIONS} we every where say our opinions..


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This error message has nothing to do with AF or MF lenses. There are lots of MF lenses that communicate with the camera (Zeiss ZE, Canon TS-E). Even when you adapt lenses there may be a communication between camera and adapter (if equipped with a chip).


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the error message on my Canon, more often with MF lenses than AF lenses. It happens most often when I use Mirror Lock Up and MF lenses, though not with all MF lenses.
The only time it has happened with AF lenses I had to send them both to be repaired. Sad


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for me I don't care much about any camera errors. I don't remember when have seen it last time. Anyway my MF lenses for me are more important than my cameras. Cameras are changing, prices are dropping down but the great lenses remains longer by far.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own dozens of MF lenses and zero AF lenses. you figure it out for me.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: MF vs AF Reply with quote

Yahvel wrote:

Is it safe to say that i rather stick with MF (Manual Focus) lenses due to the fact that i do not have to worry about certain issues like the error that i typically get on a AF (Auto-Focus) lens when the DSLR Cameras decides to show a pop-up window on my LCD screen notifying me that it cannot communicate with lens because is either dirty or damaged and to be fair i think i can understand this to a certain degree because you all have seen that little golden chip behind the mount of each AF lens ?? well by now you all know that chip is what communicates with the Camera itself and thats why you can Auto-Focus. Many have found work arounds to this problem and in some cases people have used a rubber like those seen on pencils and luckily they have managed to fix the issue but this does not apply to everyone. Sadly i have had this problem already with 4 lenses of mine, My Tokina Zoom Lens, Canon Zoom Lens, Tamron Zoom Lens and last but not least it has also happened on a Sigma Zoom Lens and this is just frustrating.

Am i wrong for saying that i rather have MF lenses than AF lenses ?

Is it ok to say that alot of MF lenses are cheaper than certain AF lenses but yet they are superior than them in quality ?

I will really love to see what is the general opinion of the community on this topic.

THANKS!


Regarding the error, that happened with one of my Canon lenses before; I cleaned the contacts, and it solved the problem.

Regarding your questions:

1. Yes and No.
I shoot a lot indoors, in dark places, and I also shoot moving subjects; it's much easier to work with AF in such conditions, and with MF lenses focusing is quite difficult in the dark, because you can barely see the split circle, and zone shooting isn't easy as well.
But for all of my daylight shots, and most still subjects shots, I use my favorite MF lenses.

2. In many cases, yes, but in some cases, no; some of the high end AF lenses of today are great, both primes and zooms... but these are mostly super expensive, with costs up to several thousands USD...
I think that cost \ efficiency wise, MF lenses are a better ordeal, in general.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the way that everyone here is passionate about manual lenses. For me, it's just a cheap way of getting fairly good lenses and have a bit of fun on the way. I love using my FSU RFs and my Canon T90, but I can't say that I have one lens that is better than my AF L lenses.

I have never once had that error show up on 5 DSLRs and I don't know of anyone that has.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I almost only shoot MF lenses. The best pictures I made are almost always MF ones.

For me a few reasons for MF lenses :

* Character of images, look and feel
* I focus where I want to focus
* More creatif
* Lenses keep their values.
* Switching from ASPC to M43 to FF, no problem Smile Just buy an adapter.
You are quasi system free Smile


PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asterinex wrote:
I almost only shoot MF lenses. The best pictures I made are almost always MF ones.

For me a few reasons for MF lenses :

* Character of images, look and feel
* I focus where I want to focus
* More creatif
* Lenses keep their values.
* Switching from ASPC to M43 to FF, no problem Smile Just buy an adapter.
You are quasi system free Smile


I agree with some of that...

* Character of images, look and feel
Yes, but that's subjective. I like my modern lenses for the same reasons, but on the whole the older lenses tend to have something special going on, so I can see where you're coming from.

* I focus where I want to focus
I have a much better keep-rate with AF lenses. It may be down to one's system, but I probably nail focus better than 99% of the time with AF

* More creatif
Really? How? Not a criticism, as you may well be more creative, but it doesn't change how I compose an image. Perhaps I'm missing something.

* Lenses keep their values.
True, they may even gain value.

* Switching from ASPC to M43 to FF, no problem Smile Just buy an adapter.
You are quasi system free Smile
( I assume you mean M42) Yes, to a point you can switch without having to replace every lens, but there are functional problems. I run M42 & FD mounts in 35mm systems; yes I can use an M42 lens on my Canon FD, but some functions are lost. I cannot use FD lenses on M42 cameras at all.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

most of you guys are photographer here... However, I think it's us video guys that revive manual lenses. Here are some reason why video guys like manual lenses

1. Usually cheaper than most autofocus lenses with comparable quality. Main reason why we buy vintage lenses.

2. Manual aperture means being able to adapt to other cameras. Really important in the long run to save cost so you don't have to sell your whole lens collection.

3. Long focus throw helps with getting critical focus. Most photography lenses focus throw is really short.

4. Made out of metal so feel much better than some photography lenses.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martinsmith99 wrote:
asterinex wrote:

* I focus where I want to focus

I have a much better keep-rate with AF lenses. It may be down to one's system, but I probably nail focus better than 99% of the time with AF


I guess to each is own. I have a much better keep-rate with MF lenses because the AF never focuses where I want it to focus. But that's because almost everything I shoot has various creative unorthodox compositions that the AF isn't going to help much with. I can also focus a razor-thin DOF f/1.4 lens better than my AF can, but I guess it took a lot of practice before I got there. When shooting portraits I'm very careful about what I focus on (eyeglasses, eyebrows, necktie, ears ...) to create the illusion of an even sharper image whereas the AF is just going to focus any random place on the face and that's worthless. MF is also great for street shots because you can pre-focus to where the action is going to be, and just shoot.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wuxiekeji wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
asterinex wrote:

* I focus where I want to focus

I have a much better keep-rate with AF lenses. It may be down to one's system, but I probably nail focus better than 99% of the time with AF


I guess to each is own. I have a much better keep-rate with MF lenses because the AF never focuses where I want it to focus. But that's because almost everything I shoot has various creative unorthodox compositions that the AF isn't going to help much with. I can also focus a razor-thin DOF f/1.4 lens better than my AF can, but I guess it took a lot of practice before I got there. When shooting portraits I'm very careful about what I focus on (eyeglasses, eyebrows, necktie, ears ...) to create the illusion of an even sharper image whereas the AF is just going to focus any random place on the face and that's worthless. MF is also great for street shots because you can pre-focus to where the action is going to be, and just shoot.

Like you say `to each his (or her) own, but I'd be interested to know how you focus. Are you using live view when shooting with shallow DOF? If not, what camera and focus aids do you have?

I use a 5D mkii and have used the Canon 135/2 and I'm happy with results wide open on portraits. I know I could not be as happy if I tried to focus this lens manually.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wuxiekeji wrote:
I guess to each is own. I have a much better keep-rate with MF lenses because the AF never focuses where I want it to focus. But that's because almost everything I shoot has various creative unorthodox compositions that the AF isn't going to help much with. I can also focus a razor-thin DOF f/1.4 lens better than my AF can, but I guess it took a lot of practice before I got there. When shooting portraits I'm very careful about what I focus on (eyeglasses, eyebrows, necktie, ears ...) to create the illusion of an even sharper image whereas the AF is just going to focus any random place on the face and that's worthless. MF is also great for street shots because you can pre-focus to where the action is going to be, and just shoot.



You couldn't have explain it better.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martinsmith99 wrote:

Like you say `to each his (or her) own, but I'd be interested to know how you focus. Are you using live view when shooting with shallow DOF? If not, what camera and focus aids do you have?

I use a 5D mkii and have used the Canon 135/2 and I'm happy with results wide open on portraits. I know I could not be as happy if I tried to focus this lens manually.


I use a 60D modded with the KatzEye split-screen prism, which helps a lot. I used to use film so I'm pretty fluent with this method. However LiveView is a bit more accurate, especially in dark conditions and with lenses that have focus shift (in which case I can focus stopped down using the screen), so I often do use LiveView as well. I have the Magic Lantern installed which can zoom a selected part of the screen, it helps a bit for the focusing.

Since you mention the Canon 135/2 -- I don't doubt that it is an optically fantastic lens, but I should say though that the tactile feel of a lens makes a HUGE difference in my ability to do manual focus efficiently. I've never seen a Canon lens, even all my friends' L lenses, have even a half-decent tactile feel, mostly because there's a layer of autofocusing mechanics between the ring and the actual lens. With true MF lenses, your hand is directly linked to the helicoid, there's almost dead zero backlash, and if you're using any of the better-constructed MF lenses (Contax Zeiss, Takumars, etc.) it's a pleasure to handle -- the construction screams "quality" and the focus rings usually have a long throw and buttery smooth quality. All-metal casing ensures they never go out of alignment, crack, or break unless you do something stupid. Basically you feel like you're operating a high-end, precisely calibrated, reliable scientific instrument. That hand feel actually makes a huge difference in focus accuracy at least for me.

And then ... there are the less-better-constructed MF lenses (Helios, Tair, some CZJ lenses, etc.) -- their construction is actually *still* not too bad, still better than any plastic Canon non-L -- the things going for them are (1) they are frighteningly cheap if you shop around well, so if you're an amateur on a budget this means you can still rack up a respectable collection of lenses without spending much (2) some specific lenses are optically sub-par in specific ways that give you interesting, artistically valuable qualities (3) they're easy to take apart, learn about, and fiddle with (4) cheap also means peace of mind, you're less worried about wrecking them with moisture or rain or something, and this means you boldly go out and shoot in rain or shine. Remember the best camera is the one that you have with you Wink


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to say that I own dozens of mf lenses and zero af lenses. nuff said.