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Explore the world of vintage lenses through repair notes, real test shots, and detailed archive threads packed with images.

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In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:17 am
Post subject: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:17 am
Post subject: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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I had a Sonnar 180/2.8, Carl Zeiss Jenna zebra, now I have a Nikkor AI - 180/2.8. Also Sonnar 5 elements. Perfect for bokeh, but much CA, in the backlight.
I'm about to change again, and I doubt between two lenses,

CANON EF 200/2.8
Carl Zeiss Sonnar C / Y 180/2.8

The Contax I think it's best lens but does not have the Sonnar bokeh of 5 elements.
The EF has very bokeh but are not as good as the Contax.

For my work, i serving an automatic tele., but being a "damn perfectionist" I like the Contax.

What other options in this price range??

Thank you very much and best regards.


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:11 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:11 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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francotirador wrote:
I had a Sonnar 180/2.8, Carl Zeiss Jenna zebra, now I have a Nikkor AI - 180/2.8. Also Sonnar 5 elements. Perfect for bokeh, but much CA, in the backlight.
I'm about to change again, and I doubt between two lenses,

CANON EF 200/2.8
Carl Zeiss Sonnar C / Y 180/2.8

The Contax I think it's best lens but does not have the Sonnar bokeh of 5 elements.
The EF has very bokeh but are not as good as the Contax.

For my work, i serving an automatic tele., but being a "damn perfectionist" I like the Contax.

What other options in this price range??

Thank you very much and best regards.


Leica 180mm APO-Elmarit-R or Summicron-R

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-180mm-f2-8-APO-Elmarit-R-/130634880519?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item1e6a721607



http://www.ebay.com/itm/APO-SUMMICRON-R-2-180-ROM-s-g-Zustd-Glas-Top-/280815674418?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item4161eb2432


Post
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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francotirador wrote:
...Carl Zeiss Sonnar C / Y 180/2.8

The Contax I think it's best lens but does not have the Sonnar bokeh of 5 elements.
....


I had this lens for several years and was never really impressed with it. I mainly used it for black and white and found it's sharpness a little lacking, wide open anyway.

Last edited by jjphoto on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Leica 180mm APO-Elmarit-R or Summicron-R

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-180mm-f2-8-APO-Elmarit-R-/130634880519?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item1e6a721607



http://www.ebay.com/itm/APO-SUMMICRON-R-2-180-ROM-s-g-Zustd-Glas-Top-/280815674418?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item4161eb2432[/quote]

Very funny, in a part i wrote something about the price range. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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jjphoto wrote:
francotirador wrote:
...Carl Zeiss Sonnar C / Y 180/2.8

The Contax I think it's best lens but does not have the Sonnar bokeh of 5 elements.
....


I had this lens for several years and was never really impressed with it. I mainly used it for black and white and found it's sharpness a little lacking, wide open anyway. I don't recall any problems with Bokeh, but I think you can do much better than this lens.

FluffPuppy wrote:
...
Leica 180mm APO-Elmarit-R or Summicron-R
...


The bokeh of the Cron is hard to beat and especially at portrait distances, at least in my experience, but it's not perfect. I've seen a little harshness at longer distances but only in difficult circumstances where any other lens would also struggle. However, it is not as sharp as the APO-Telyt or APO-Elmarit at the periphery of the frame when each lens is at or near optimum aperture. The Cron is certainly very sharp even wide open but if 'landscape' resolution is your goal then the APO-Telyt or APO-Elmarit are a better choice, the APO-Elmarit being the best of the lot and having a much closer MFD (the biggest practical failing of the APO-Telyt). Not sure about the APO-Elmarit's bokeh and TBH I don't care much either as I don't see myself dumping my Cron any day soon.

I've been using a Cron for more than 15 years now and consider it the best 'portrait' lens I've ever used, albeit a long one.

JJ


Nix on the APO-Telyt. Nope. I hated it. Does it have to be fast? If not, the 180mm Elmar-R (f/4) is a great lens!


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:29 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:29 am
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The 180/200mm telephoto, use a lot in backlight.
The bokeh and CA are very important. I believe that although I do not like the kind of image most of the EF, I will go for the Canon 2.8/200


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:01 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:01 am
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My best corrected lens for CA and sharpest wide-open is APO-Telyt 3.4/180 i.e. no CA. Elmarit-R 2.8/180 second version is very good too, but it shows some CA. APO-Lanthar 4/180 - best at close distances ~1-3m. CA is slightly worse than APO-Telyt, but better than Elmarit. Elmar-R 4/180 shows more CA and slightly lower contrast than Elmarit. CZJ Sonnars can't match above mentioned lenses.
The APO-Telyt is fantastic in backlight situations. Bokeh depends on distance to subject and type of background - as with every lens.
Here are two samples in backklight situations - not my best portraits, but they show exactly what I mean.


http://www.abload.de/img/sg205696yfap.jpg

More samples in this thread.


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:28 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:28 am
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The faster Leica 180mm are amazing, but to be honest, my personal search for a 180/200mm lenses ended when I found my Leica Elmar-R 4/180. Sure, it's not an f/2.8 lens and it's not as good as the APO-Telyt but it's definitely good enough and very small, about the size of a 2.8/135, and pretty affordable.


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:33 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:33 am
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The Canon EF 200/2.8L II is absolutely brilliant Smile These were taken on my 60D (last one on 5D):









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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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francotirador wrote:
The Contax I think it's best lens but does not have the Sonnar bokeh of 5 elements.
The EF has very bokeh but are not as good as the Contax.

Have you actually tried the Canon? I think it's hard to get something better for that price. It's probably sharper than the Contax and will have much less CA. The Contax will have more character, but it's not a lens "for the perfectionist".

If you want optically perfect, the Mamiya 645 200/2.8 APO is a good candidate. Reportedly it's as sharp as the Leica APO-Elmarit 180/2.8. Very well corrected for CA. I grabbed mine for ~400 euros. Smile It's a pretty rare lens though.

I'd probably go for the Canon, unless you really want the Zeiss character.

Another candidate: Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 200/2.8. Sample shots: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/935710


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:08 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:08 pm
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LucisPictor wrote:
The faster Leica 180mm are amazing, but to be honest, my personal search for a 180/200mm lenses ended when I found my Leica Elmar-R 4/180. Sure, it's not an f/2.8 lens and it's not as good as the APO-Telyt but it's definitely good enough and very small, about the size of a 2.8/135, and pretty affordable.


I used to own one, and I wholeheartedly agree!


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:10 pm
Post subject: Re: In search of 180 - 200 mm perfect......
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:10 pm
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francotirador wrote:
Leica 180mm APO-Elmarit-R or Summicron-R

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-180mm-f2-8-APO-Elmarit-R-/130634880519?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item1e6a721607



http://www.ebay.com/itm/APO-SUMMICRON-R-2-180-ROM-s-g-Zustd-Glas-Top-/280815674418?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item4161eb2432

Very funny, in a part i wrote something about the price range. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


But you asked for 'perfect'. They are closer to perfect than any others of which I have knowledge.


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:40 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:40 pm
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
The Canon EF 200/2.8L II is absolutely brilliant Smile These were taken on my 60D (last one on 5D):









Wow!!

FluffPuppy wrote:
But you asked for 'perfect'. They are closer to perfect than any others of which I have knowledge.

Knowledge and and opinions only in Leica perhaps?


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:06 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:06 pm
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martinsmith99 wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
The Canon EF 200/2.8L II is absolutely brilliant Smile These were taken on my 60D (last one on 5D)



Wow!!

FluffPuppy wrote:
But you asked for 'perfect'. They are closer to perfect than any others of which I have knowledge.

Knowledge and and opinions only in Leica perhaps?


Perhaps by common consent. Maybe you could read Erwin Puts, who discusses these lenses. The Canon company makes some good lenses too. The APO-Summicron and APO-Elmarit are regarded as basically diffraction-limited. In addition (being diffraction-limited does not make a lens perfect) they have outstanding color and brilliance.

Auo-focussing mechanism introduce some limitations in lens design, of course.


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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:08 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:08 am
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Finally I decided for the Canon EF 135mm f2 L, and no regrets. It is impressive to f2.!

at f2


Double click to see it in high quality


Thank you very much, everybody.


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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:26 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:26 am
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Second shot looks nice but in the first one I don't see anything sharp, perhaps it's a bit front focussed.


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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:16 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:16 am
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Second shot looks nice but in the first one I don't see anything sharp, perhaps it's a bit front focused.


Same opinion.


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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:44 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:44 pm
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In the first photo had the camera in my hands, 1/60 speed and f2.0. Belen was moving, look at the front wheel. The focus is on the seat, but despite that little movement I think the photo is very interesting. Photography is an expressive art and depending on that the content is often more important than formality. I was looking for the place to make the first photo of the day and I found that picture, are unique moments and one should not let them pass.

PS: Bethlehem, not the model and ran away from the photo, haha​​!.



Daniel, is my assistant





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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:13 am
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:13 am
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francotirador wrote:
Photography is an expressive art and depending on that the content is often more important than formality.


I agree with this one.
But technically you were wrong. You don't shoot at 1/60 with a 135mm/2 lens.
And on a moving subject with that shutter.


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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:18 am
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:18 am
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Thanks a lot for this thread and the pictures; same probs here with my Nikkor-P 180mm f2.8. Pretty useless wide open, read: flare magnet with no contrast to speak of in any backlight situation + ...loads of CA.
Since 180mm and beyond without image stabilisation or tripod are hard to handle on my NEXes anyway I'm gonna sell that beast and replace it with something around 135-150mm. Another lens that comes to my mind is the excellent E-Series 75-150mm f3.5 Nikon zoom. Not exactly 180mm but I had it on my F3 for many years and couldn't ask for a 'better' lens those days.


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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:16 pm
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:16 pm
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You got to check out optical and mechanical perfection of the Nikkor 80-200mm 2.8 AIS ED

It produced and produces images just out of this world. No other 2.8 Telephoto found
that achieved these results (and I have testet the newest Nikkor 2.8 telezooms as well - the
legend just beats all successors. Very Happy

You can find images here: http://forum.mflenses.com/nikon-history-the-nikkor-80-200mm-2-8-ais-ed-t55661.html
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