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Macro Rail photography / zeiss 2.0/35 ZE
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Macro Rail photography / zeiss 2.0/35 ZE Reply with quote







PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They cerrtainly look sharp enough, did you do a lot of processing to these as Im seeing a double border
on the high contrast areas?


PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Bruce, you are right. Unfortunately I have this result from the raw file. It is not pp result.

That's why I posted the photos. I have pm Orio, I can't explain it.

I have no problem with regular frames... Orio asked for the raws and he'll have them.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what raw converter have you been using Magnet?


PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio, DPP and Camera Raw give the same result.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you sent the files? I'll give them a go at my workstation.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just sending. In fact 2 emails - 5dii files, you know.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Dimitris
here's one of your files, converted with Breezebrowser Pro.
Breezebrowser Pro is a browser/converter program that uses the same SDK of Canon's own DPP, therefore, it converts images identically as DPP:



All that I can see, is a nice image, very sharp for being wide open, with some (forgivable) lateral chromatic aberration.
Nothing that resembles your terrible image.
So, whatever problem is that causes those artifacts, it's in your software, or in your workflow - not in the RAW file.

Hope this makes you feel better! Very Happy

Orio


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, what a difference! I use DPP and I've never seen that effect before.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! they look 200% improved!
The first images look as something I would do when
I go heavy handed on the sliders. Laughing
I think they call it "crushing the shadows"
as opposed to "blowing out the highlights"


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much Orio for your interest and your time.

Thank you Bruce for your comment. You were right.

I have already reset the camera raw settings and everything is fine.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magnet-2009 wrote:
Thank you very much Orio for your interest and your time.
Thank you Bruce for your comment. You were right.
I have already reset the camera raw settings and everything is fine.


What sliders did you change to get that effect?
And how could possibly two different raw converters give the same absurd result without you being aware that you edited the parameters?
Why didn't you think to verify that the images were ok without those edits?


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an amazing difference!

The first images look like someone tried to make a HDR image from the same RAW file - some converts allows that.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good questions Orio. Lets talk about it.

1. I opened the wrong file using dpp [already worked with camera raw] and not the file directly from the camera. Too old to rock n' roll, too young to die.Very Happy

2. The workflow I followed and worked very good with my files using Canon lens was the following:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cbrushphoto

The camera raw settings that made the problem are:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cbrushphoto#p/u/15/w5vA0yk37IU

http://www.youtube.com/user/cbrushphoto#p/u/14/AkFcdIfjTJk


I can't follow it with zeiss lens. Very Happy No pp needed in fact. Razz [to poilu Wink ]

I didn't see the smooth dpp result because I open raw with camera raw and the workflow settings are extreme at the begining.

BTW is there any topic about pp workflow? Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magnet-2009 wrote:
Very good questions Orio. Lets talk about it.

1. I opened the wrong file using dpp [already worked with camera raw] and not the file directly from the camera. Too old to rock n' roll, too young to die.Very Happy

2. The workflow I followed and worked very good with my files using Canon lens was the following:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cbrushphoto

The camera raw settings that made the problem are:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cbrushphoto#p/u/15/w5vA0yk37IU

http://www.youtube.com/user/cbrushphoto#p/u/14/AkFcdIfjTJk


I can't follow it with zeiss lens. Very Happy No pp needed in fact. Razz [to poilu Wink ]

I didn't see the smooth dpp result because I open raw with camera raw and the workflow settings are extreme at the begining.

BTW is there any topic about pp workflow? Very Happy


Dimitris,
before following this or that PP tutorial, keep this in mind:

1) ANY digital editing that you apply on an image, degrades the information of the image. Even if the image looks better, the information in it is degraded compared to original state.
This is always true

2) Editing an image is an individual act. There are no workflows that can work well for every image. When serious people (like me Laughing ) prepare workflow, actions, etc, they always provide different settings - like when I made the zeissify action, I made it in 5 or 6 different settings. But, the most important thing is the personal judgement. What the person did in the tutorial, that is, to save a default that will be used on all images, is the best way to ruin your images

3) Many people think with this mind: "I take a photo, just a basic act of click on the camera, then the magic will happen in photoshop".
This is the bad amateur way of doing things.
And it leads to bad amateur results.
The way the pros think, is: "I do my best to get the best shot right out of the camera. Then, if, and only if, something is wrong, I will rescue it in photoshop, for as much as it is needed to rescue the fault and nothing more"
The reason why you buy a lens like the Z Distagon, is to think and act like the pro. To do like the bad amateur, the kit lens is sufficient.

Very Happy

-


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:

The first images look like someone tried to make a HDR image from the same RAW file


Yes, but also more. The colours are completely messed up. Like if a difference layer was overimposed in multiply or darken mode, or something.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

OK. I know now, Zeiss need no pp. No blue for green, no pp. Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
kds315* wrote:

The first images look like someone tried to make a HDR image from the same RAW file


Yes, but also more. The colours are completely messed up. Like if a difference layer was overimposed in multiply or darken mode, or something.


If you are interested follow the workflow and you'll get "the" result.

I follow a different way from now on. Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio

We can all take something away from that advice. Thanks


patrickh


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Cool Cool Cool




PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Less bad than before, but I still see the double edge.
Also, you deprived the image of dark tones, now it is weak.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Third trial and we are oooooff topic. Very Happy






PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark tones are good now.
Still a hint of double edges though... try not to apply sharpening after resize.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last trial. Cool Realy, I made very little use of the sliders [no sharpening at all]. The double line rose because I've used too much the fill light slider at camera raw.






PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magnet wrote:
The double line rose because I've used too much the fill light slider at camera raw

dangerous tool to use, especially if the lcd is not calibrated
check http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ and make sure you can see all black level & saturation
as pointed by Orio last year, the 5DII must be exposed properly, not many latitude in post processing

banding on #1 is a bad advertise for such a expensive dslr
I have amplified the contrast so you can better see it