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Auto-Takumar 2.8/105mm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relayer wrote:
estudleon wrote:
The Auto, Super, S M C? 4 or 5 elements? Till I saw at the forums, they have similar rendering and sharpness.


Auto Takumar have two external blades in aperture. in my experience Auto Takumar have more smooth bokeh than Super or SMC version.


I concur. Also, the Auto-Takumars are interesting because they show that Asahi Opt. Co. was still searching for the right path to follow. There was hardly any standardization between the Auto-Taks. Filter threads were different. Especially the faster lenses have non-standard filter threads. On top of this the materials used for the lenses differed greatly: brass, black anodized, and even bare aluminium. Even the shape of the lever for cocking the diaphragm differs between lenses.

All in all, Auto-Taks are uncommon because initially these were (more expensive) alternatives to the pre-sets. And the production shifted soon to the manufacture of real Auto lenses (which didn't have to be cocked): the Super-Takumars.

Also, there are Auto-Takumars which are in fact Super-Takumars (the 55mm f/1.8 Auto-Takumar from 1960 comes to mind).

But this is offtopic; Rolf: please use this lens more Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relayer wrote:
Spotmatic, sorry for my error - I tell about early preset Takumar, not Auto. but I think that both preset and auto version have same optical design 4-4. late Asahi change design to 5-4 in Super and SMC version


Your statement was right anyway. Yes, both the pre-set and Auto have the same 4-4 design.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice pics as always Rolf

estudleon wrote:

The lens is fantastic. But I have a doubt. Which version of the 105 is the best?

The Auto, Super, S M C? 4 or 5 elements? Till I saw at the forums, they have similar rendering and sharpness.

What's your opinion about?

Rino.


Rino no opinion yet, but it must be on me to do a comparison, but I only can do it on APS-C sensor:


( taken with another Auto Takumar, the f2/55mm on Pentax *istDs )

from left: Auto / Preset / Super / S-M-C Takumar f2.8/105mm
note also differences of aperture blades, Auto / Preset = 8 blades, Super / S-M-C = 6 blades and of colors of coating


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, wow, wow and wow !

I must see that Im still a novice regarding Takumars.
Kuuan - what a nice collection. Congrats !

Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, Andreas should be envied. Not only does he have a superb collection of Taks, but he also knows how to use them with his talent. Talking about gifted Surprised


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Peter,

as always - you come to the point !!

Wink Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andreas i think a comparison of your lovely collection would be fantastic!!! i am thinking of 105mm and would love to see the differences; i think many others would also. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relayer.

Thank you, very much.

Spotmatic.

Thanks. As always.

Andreas

Nice collection !!!! I fall in love with all these 105 lenses.

Thanks.

Rino.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rbelyell wrote:
andreas i think a comparison of your lovely collection would be fantastic!!! i am thinking of 105mm and would love to see the differences; i think many others would also. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Thank you all
..specially for your flattering comments Laughing

I just took pics @f2.8 and @f8 with the 4 models of 2.8/105mm Takumars,
here the one taken with the Auto Tak @f8:



a 100% center crop:


and a 100% right top corner crop: ( well, on APS-C )


days are so short now and dawn already had started thus I already had turned on the lights.
Please tell me I should better redo the test, if so please tell me how to change the set up.
Or are these good enough, if so I will start a new thread with all the 8 pics + the 2 100% crops of each.

cheers,
Andreas


PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it is already done I decided to show you the 100% crops right here.
I did not focus the 4 lenses equally, specially the S-M-C looks off.
For a dedicated thread I should do a better job ( but not sure if I am able to)
shot in RAW on Pentax *istDs, converted in LR with default settings, the only thing adjusted, equally in all pics, is the WB
















cheers,
Andreas


Last edited by kuuan on Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to be that the preset Tak does pretty well.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucisPictor wrote:
It seems to be that the preset Tak does pretty well.


yes, which makes me happy, because the preset is the one I prefer and have been using most Smile

on second thought / look the focus even with the S-M-C doesn't look to be all that bad and I add the full views as well.
The corner performance of the Auto Tak, considering that this is on APS-C, is quite shocking, maybe a bad copy?

full frame views, resized to 800xYYY ( not sharpened, which resizing however seems to require )

@ f2.8:

Auto Tak:


Preset Tak:


Super Tak:


S-M-C:




and @f8:
Auto Tak:


Preset:


Super Tak:


S-M-C:


Last edited by kuuan on Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This suprises me. I thought SMC with better coating should have better IQ. Kuuan, could you have some outdoor shots?
Mike


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djmike wrote:
This suprises me. I thought SMC with better coating should have better IQ. Kuuan, could you have some outdoor shots?
Mike


Sadly, I also had to concluded that the 105mm f/2.8 S-M-C Takumar is a very overhyped lens. I had one too but it never lived up to its expectations. It was fairly soft at larger apertures. I guess this lens was always intended as a cheaper portrait alternative to the 85/1.9. I still have an early 105/2.8 Super-Takumar but it also is not one of my sharpest lenses Wink

@Relayer: damn, that Vivitar has nice bokeh! Shocked


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djmike wrote:
This suprises me. I thought SMC with better coating should have better IQ. Kuuan, could you have some outdoor shots?
Mike


same here, I also expected the S-M-C to be the best of the bunch.
I thoughts that my focus is not ideal, that it fares worse than the Super Tak also simply could be due to sample variation.

outside it is COLD, minus degrees..the same set up for the sample shots is still standing, now with enough daylight. Is the set up ok? than I simply redo it with lights turned off - and seriously, I'd be very grateful for suggestions!

Relayer wrote:
kuuan, your yashica's is nice Smile ok, I also have something bokeh tests

preset takumar bit better in bokeh rendition than SMC. but Vivitar is great Smile


indeed, the Vivitar's bokeh is super nice!

Spotmatic wrote:

Sadly, I also had to concluded that the 105mm f/2.8 S-M-C Takumar is a very overhyped lens. I had one too but it never lived up to its expectations. It was fairly soft at larger apertures. I guess this lens was always intended as a cheaper portrait alternative to the 85/1.9. I still have an early 105/2.8 Super-Takumar but it also is not one of my sharpest lenses Wink


any hype is over the top Laughing
I esteem the 2.8/105 Tak to be a good, even a very good lens. But sure there always is a better one, and great if it is one which is not well known and can be had for little.
Relayer, how about the Vivitar, is it a well known lens, or rather a gem to be found as bargain?


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spotmatic wrote:
Sadly, I also had to concluded that the 105mm f/2.8 S-M-C Takumar is a very overhyped lens. I had one too but it never lived up to its expectations. It was fairly soft at larger apertures.


That's precisely what I fould of my (now sold) copy. I was really disappointed with its (low) contrast and sharpness wide open. The bokeh wasn't that nice, too. My beat-up and all-scratched copy of MC Kaleinar-5N (a 100/2.8 from Ukraine) is a lot sharper and a lot more contrasty than the Tak.

I had the chance to pick up a pre-set Tokina 105/2.8; it will be interesting to see how that one performs. I have a similarly looking Tokina-made 135/3.5 which is dwarfish and has extremely smooth rendering - the smoothest of all lenses I have in my collection. Of course, it's not very sharp and not at all contrasty, but when used for B&W portraits... Smile If that 105mm is half that good (OK, not 'technically' good, but in artistic sense), I'll be all over it.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree. Vivitar's bokeh is fantastic from those three shots.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spotmatic makes a mental note about the Vivitar... Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you Relayer.
me too Spotmatic take a note of this Vivitar for sure! got to love those unlikely gems!

so I did reshot the 4 Takumars, again shat in RAW with Pentax *istDs,
converted in LR with default settings
here the full view, the one taken with the Preset @f5.6 ( resized in PS - Relayer you had liked the Yashicas Smile )




100% crops:
center @ f2.8:


center @ f5.6:


left top corner @ f2.8:


left top corner @ f5.6


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've posted a couple of times about the Soligor T4 105/2.8 - the Vivitar T4 is the same lens with different cosmetics:

http://forum.mflenses.com/three-105s-compared-t15229,highlight,soligor+105mm.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/smc-takumar-soligor-t4-2-8-105mm-compared-ii-t17563,highlight,soligor+105mm.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/soligor-t4-2-8-105mm-kodak-160nc-t18407,highlight,soligor+105mm.html

Overall, I don't think the Soligor gives anything up to the Takumar, but is larger and heavier. I use it on the Nikon FE. If it were a TX Vivitar I'd be able to use it as an Ai lens, and on the Pentax ES-II as an SMC lens. (I just found a TX 135 that will do this).


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuuan wrote:
thank you Relayer.
me too Spotmatic take a note of this Vivitar for sure! got to love those unlikely gems!

so I did reshot the 4 Takumars, again shat in RAW with Pentax *istDs,
converted in LR with default settings
here the full view, the one taken with the Preset @f5.6 ( resized in PS - Relayer you had liked the Yashicas Smile )




100% crops:
center @ f2.8:


center @ f5.6:


left top corner @ f2.8:


left top corner @ f5.6



Thank you, Andreas.

Nice performances for the 4 takumars lenses. And the pre-set, What a lens!!!!

I think to stop here in the purchases quid, but I think that the 105 pre-set will be my next (add to biotar 75, pancolar 80, etc). Laughing

Regards, Rino.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
again shat in RAW with Pentax *istDs,


Scottish photographic expression?? Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mo-Fo wrote:
Quote:
again shat in RAW with Pentax *istDs,


Scottish photographic expression?? Wink


oops: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shat Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

estudleon wrote:

Thank you, Andreas.

Nice performances for the 4 takumars lenses. And the pre-set, What a lens!!!!

I think to stop here in the purchases quid, but I think that the 105 pre-set will be my next (add to biotar 75, pancolar 80, etc). Laughing

Regards, Rino.


you are very welcome Rino Smile

I had been assuming that the S-M-C will be the best of the bunch. I am also very pleasantly surprised by the preset because it's the one I have been using for being somewhat smaller and I prefer it's handling being a preset with it's 2 aperture rings at the front. - And I like using beaten up lenses for looking less 'threatening', my Super Tak and S-M-C are near to mint, not so my preset Laughing

I had been thinking that the preset is smaller by a margin, but actually all 4 are exactly of the same length the preset is only smaller in diameter.
See the S-M-C and the preset mounted on the - also small - Pentax ME Super:




( both taken with Makro Takumar f4/50mm on *istDs )

wish you all the best luck to find the preset Rino! - and I am very curious if you will like it, after all you have the very fabulous Biotar and Pancolar Shocked


PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few with this one:

1
The fallen by The lens profile, on Flickr

2
Fence Flowerkeh by The lens profile, on Flickr

3
Clover by The lens profile, on Flickr