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Meaning of extension name of Carl Zeiss lenses?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Meaning of extension name of Carl Zeiss lenses? Reply with quote
Hello,

I tried to find the meaning over the internet but still confused w the extension name of Carl Zeiss. Does it have special intend of their original optical improvements or just for marketing purposes.

Here are some which I found over the internet ...1.flektogon, 2.sonnar, 3. vario sonnar,4. tessar,5. biotar,6. distagon,7.planar, 8. pancolar,9.distagon, 10. triotar .....any other?

Any one has chance to compare the old Carl Zeiss lenses w new generation made by Japanese Company (Cosina? Sony?)

Many thanks,
RTogog


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Meaning of extension name of Carl Zeiss lenses? Reply with quote
RTOGOG wrote:
Hello,

I tried to find the meaning over the internet but still confused w the extension name of Carl Zeiss. Does it have special intend of their original optical improvements or just for marketing purposes.

Here are some which I found over the internet ...1.flektogon, 2.sonnar, 3. vario sonnar,4. tessar,5. biotar,6. distagon,7.planar, 8. pancolar,9.distagon, 10. triotar .....any other?

Any one has chance to compare the old Carl Zeiss lenses w new generation made by Japanese Company (Cosina? Sony?)

Many thanks,
RTogog


After the second world war Carl Zeiss split into two - the east german is called Carl Zeiss Jena (CZJ). In east and west similar designs often had different names, though not always - for example name Sonnar was used in both east and west.

The names indicate different construction of the lens - for example Sonnar lenses typicallly have very few pieces of glass, and one of the pieces is normally very thick. A good example is the CZJ 135/3.5 which has only 4 elements (in 3 groups). See http://www.praktica-users.com/lens/mlenses/czjson3.5_135.html for a drawing of this lens.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Meaning of extension name of Carl Zeiss lenses? Reply with quote
Anu wrote:
for example Sonnar lenses typicallly have very few pieces of glass, and one of the pieces is normally very thick.


slightly OT answer: this is only true for the tele constructions. the 50mm sonnar has typically more lenses which are not that thick ...


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RTOGOG, did you see this one? http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Biotar_en.html

It explains in much detail and in many pictures the different optical schemes of that era.

As to comparing picture quality of those older lenses vs. recent designs... well, it's a mixed bag. For example, Sonnar 180/2.8 is probably as good optically as modern ED glass in that focal range, yet modern lenses are two times lighter, shorter, thinner, have AF, weather sealing, internal focusing... pretty much everything is better BUT image quality! Similarly, Sonnar 300/4 is on par optically with some of the best 300mm lenses of recent designs (and much better than Pentax or Nikon or Canon offerings of that time); however, the Sonnar is half a meter long and weighs a ton!

Adding autofocus introduced its own bag of problems. Most AF lenses have internal focus, which is inherently more difficult to design properly. In its turn, many AF lenses exhibit artifacts such as color fringing just because it would be difficult to get rid of them without investing significantly in better design and better (costlier) glass - all that just to stay on par with older MF designs!


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Meaning of extension name of Carl Zeiss lenses? Reply with quote
mflex-on wrote:
Anu wrote:
for example Sonnar lenses typicallly have very few pieces of glass, and one of the pieces is normally very thick.


slightly OT answer: this is only true for the tele constructions. the 50mm sonnar has typically more lenses which are not that thick ...


Also it's not true that "Sonnar lenses typicallly have very few pieces of glass", because the basic Sonnar scheme has 7 elements, which is more than basic Planar and basic Tessar, just to name the two competing scheme in the Zeiss normal and short tele range.

And about the "one very thick", it's really a cemented group of two different elements.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aoleg wrote:

RTOGOG, did you see this one? http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Biotar_en.html

It explains in much detail and in many pictures the different optical schemes of that era.

Many thanks for the links. I just surprised some old lens (Pentacon, m42 non Carl Zeiss Jenna version) which is I acquired recently give me stunning pictures (my subjective assessment is better). Their sharpness & color rendition which I like very much and difficult to explain.

I just use it on Pentax body w/ an adapter that gave me comparable result against my Pentax limited & * lenses which I have. Yes, this Pentacon is not AF, but not in all situation I need AF feature.

Regards,
RTogog


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Meaning of extension name of Carl Zeiss lenses? Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
mflex-on wrote:
Anu wrote:
for example Sonnar lenses typicallly have very few pieces of glass, and one of the pieces is normally very thick.


slightly OT answer: this is only true for the tele constructions. the 50mm sonnar has typically more lenses which are not that thick ...


Also it's not true that "Sonnar lenses typicallly have very few pieces of glass", because the basic Sonnar scheme has 7 elements, which is more than basic Planar and basic Tessar, just to name the two competing scheme in the Zeiss normal and short tele range.

And about the "one very thick", it's really a cemented group of two different elements.


You're right, though I do want to correct my Sonnar statement by saying that the idea of Sonnar design was to minimize internal reflections while having a large maximum aperture, thus reduce the number of air-glass surfaces. So I was incorrect when I said few lenses - I should have said few groups.

And about the "one very thick", yes I know that it's typically a cemented group of two (or three) elements. I will never again write before morning's second cup of coffee - all kinds of silly statements just pour out of my mouth...Wink
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