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Elmar-R 4/180 at f/4 on 350D: Havis Amanda et Larus
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Elmar-R 4/180 at f/4 on 350D: Havis Amanda et Larus Reply with quote
In the course of testing the Elmar-R 4/180 at full aperture, I happened to spot a gull sitting on the head of the Havis Amanda statue at the Helsinki Marketplace and succeeded in getting a rather nice shot:



(the full-size image is available at http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_elmar_4_files/e180_7273.jpg)

The Elmar is turning out to be one of my favorite street lenses on the 350D. It isn't a perfect lens, there is no such thing, but it produces very nice pictures even at the full f/4 aperture, see http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_elmar_4.html . The photos cropped to 720 x 1080 have a FOV corresponding to a 920 mm lens on an FF body.

CZJ 2.8/200 and Jupiter-6 2.8/180 are nice lenses but not very suitable for street use. In a crowd, they are more like lethal weapons, and very conspicuous, especially the J-6, the main use of which is to impress the L-people, it really is an intimidating lump of metal and glass, like the business end of the main gun of a T-72. The Elmar, on the other hand, is quite inconspicuous, and people may not even be aware that you are reaching them with it. As an example, I shot a series of photos of people photographing the Helsinki Cathedral, a gallery of styles, see "I Fotografi" at http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/fotografi.html . Note that even with a dSLR, a slightly cloudy weather produces much more satisfactory colors.

Veijo

PS. edited to correct the Elmar focal length in the text.

Last edited by vilva on Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice resolution!

About CZJ or Jupi-36, imagine people face if you use photo snipper Tair-3S:)


PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
About the gull photo: Excellent capture!

About the Elmar 180 being sharp wide open: that does not surprise me. It is sort of Leica lenses ID card to be sharp wide open, except perhaps for the Summicrons.

About your Fotografi series: may I say, BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO!
This is one of the best street photography series that I ever saw!!
You captured the full spectrum of camera users, from the casual tourist to the amateur, from the old people to the young, from the technologically empaired to the techno-geek. Really a comédie humaine of our times.
One thing that makes me think looking at your series, is that I realized how goofy people look with the new, LCD-operated cameras, where you do not take the camera to your eye but look at it from the distance.
I find it sort of dis-graceful, aesthetically speaking. And seeing those big men operating a tiny camera away from their face, also rather comical.
I guess this is in line with the common trend of progress: of the newer available options, often the aesthetically ugliest ones prevail.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I go to walk with Tair-3A and there was not a single time that someone did not ask me what the heck is this chunk of metal and what I am shooting with it. But its funny. Wink

The seagull shot is nice Smile


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Nice resolution!

About CZJ or Jupi-36, imagine people face if you use photo snipper Tair-3S:)


Well, the Tair is a different beast. The CZJ doesn't look too bad, but it is large and easy to spot from far away, people notice that you are aiming at them. The Elmar is small, just another normal lens when seen from 20 meters away.

The J-6 is different, it really looks mean, especially the aluminum version I have. It must be one of the meanest looking lenses:



It doesn't quite have the bore of the T-72 main gun, but...

However, when I wrote "lethal weapons", I meant it in very concrete terms. A 350D with the J-6 weighs slightly more than 2 kg, a 5D almoust 2.5 kg. The mass is concentrated within a relatively small space and has a lot of inertia. In a crowd, if someone suddenly turns her head and hits it against the front end of the J-6, the lens and camera combination will hardly budge, and the result might be even rather serious physical injury - and if you happen to perform an instinctive evasive action, you may hit someone else instead as the mass is difficult to stop once you get it moving. In contrast, a 350D with the Elmar weighs only about 1 kg, and the combination is much safer and easier to handle.

Veijo


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
sqwall wrote:
I go to walk with Tair-3A and there was not a single time that someone did not ask me what the heck is this chunk of metal and what I am shooting with it. But its funny. Wink


Reminds me of an evening when I was wearing a beret and had a large Manfrotto hanging under my arm while passing a police station. There were some cops in the yard who took notice of my appearance and started walking into my direction till one of them recognized the Manfrotto and they turned away muttering something about "just a bloody tripod" Smile

Quote:
The seagull shot is nice Smile


Thanks,

Veijo


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

About the Elmar 180 being sharp wide open: that does not surprise me. It is sort of Leica lenses ID card to be sharp wide open, except perhaps for the Summicrons.


The 4/180 Elmar isn't really sharp in the sense of rendering the smallest details very distinctly, probably not at any aperture. However, somewhat coarse details are rendered very well over the whole frame, even at the full aperture. I knew this already, and my intention wasn't to test the resolution as such but more in combination with the limited DOF at various distances. The DOF at f/4 is limited but still 40% deeper than that of a CZJ 2.8/200 or a J-6 2.8/180 at f/2.8.

Using a long lens under low light conditions maybe problematic irrespective of the maximum aperture - with a small aperture you need a tripod, with a large aperture the very shallow DOF causes problems. The f/2.8 lenses are large and heavy, fatiguing to carry and handle, cumbersome to handle and even slightly dangerous under some circumstances, and some small f/4 lenses have begun to seem a much better alternative, e.g. the Elmar and the 4/200 Nikkor (I'm getting some Nikkor AI lenses: a 2.5/105, a 3.5/135 and a 4/200). I don't think I gain much if anything with the one extra stop of the f/2.8 lenses. I gain more with the increased DOF and ease of handling of the small f/4 lenses, and shooting RAW I can always push that one stop afterwards as the slight increase in noise most often is quite inconsequential. Besides, I think I can hold the Elmar steadier at 1/25 s than the J-6 at 1/50 s, at least after carrying and pointing the J-6 for a couple of hours - the static strain causes some extra tremors. For further justification, see my answer to Attila.

Quote:
About your Fotografi series: may I say, BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO!
This is one of the best street photography series that I ever saw!!


Thanks Smile

Veijo


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
vilva wrote:

Using a long lens under low light conditions maybe problematic irrespective of the maximum aperture - with a small aperture you need a tripod, with a large aperture the very shallow DOF causes problems. The f/2.8 lenses are large and heavy, fatiguing to carry and handle, cumbersome to handle and even slightly dangerous under some circumstances, and some small f/4 lenses have begun to seem a much better alternative, e.g. the Elmar and the 4/200 Nikkor (I'm getting some Nikkor AI lenses: a 2.5/105, a 3.5/135 and a 4/200). I don't think I gain much if anything with the one extra stop of the f/2.8 lenses.


I agree, actually.
Most of the times, when shooting in daylight, I try to close that extra stop anyway, in order to improve the performance. And yes the better handling of a slower tele lens makes up for the slower aperture. I would only make an exception to this when shooting action and it's really low available light (such as winter) and you have something to stand the lens upon (may be a tripod, monopod, or simply a wall). Then one could really use the extra stop. Such would be for instance the situation in my Carnival series. But it's really an exception more than the rule. Most of the times, the better handling of a smaller and slower lens proves to be a better choice.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
vilva wrote:

The J-6 is different, it really looks mean, especially the aluminum version I have. It must be one of the meanest looking lenses:


This is one of the few lenses that I still would like to buy.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great pics!

I am a little confused, did you shoot with a 180mm or a 200mm Elmar?
(The title and the text mention different focal lengths.)

Ah, I see. Seems to be the 180. Wink

Last edited by LucisPictor on Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Great pics!


Thanks Smile

Quote:
I am a little confused, did you shoot with a 180mm or a 200mm Elmar?
(The title and the text mention different focal lengths.)

Ah, I see. Seems to the 180. Wink


Corrected the text, thanks for pointing out the discrepancy.

Veijo
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