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Petzval 1840
Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 103
Location: N.E. of Spain (Europe)
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 Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:02 am Post subject: Two very different Biotar 58 mm-f:2 Carl Zeiss Jena. |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:02 am Post subject: Two very different Biotar 58 mm-f:2 Carl Zeiss Jena. |
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Petzval 1840 wrote:
Hi:
Approximately 25 years ago I bought in Barcelona this two Biotar 58mm-f:2. Both are Carl Zeiss Jena, but they are very different.
Does anybody can explain to us the reason?
Bests Regards: David.
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MF-addicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 803
Location: Stuttgart (Germany)
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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MF-addicted wrote:
Hi David,
here you can look up the production years:
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-lenses-issue-date-by-serial-number-t6865.html
The first has 17 blades and was produced around 1951-1952 (serial 34...)
The second has 10 blades and has pre-set aperture and was produced around 1957-1958 (serial 47...)
I am sure that the first has a brass (messing) tube (... in the black version - thanks to Klaus  ) and I am not sure, but think that the second has an aluminum tube.
I have got the first one with 17 blades in black and f=5.8 cm.
The first version is one of the rarest.
Both of them are really good performes ... as well as their russian brother Helios 44 and his variations.
Might be some interesting links:
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=14481&highlight=biotar&sid=66744daa4450f28bf0dd04a4a9e39f31
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/53228-czj-biotar-58mm-f-2-0-a.html
_________________
EOS 5D MK II, EOS 5D Classic, EOS 400D --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Canon FD to EOS converted: FD 1,4/24 asph, FD 2,8/300 L
Carl Zeiss Jena:Pancolar 2/50, black Biotar 2/5,8cm 17bl., slim Biotar 1,5/7,5cm 18bl., Pancolar 1,8/80mm, Sonnar 3,5/135, Triotar 4/135
Carl Zeiss: Distagon 4/18T*, Distagon 1,4/35 HFT, Planar 1,4/50 T*, Vario-Sonnar 3,4/35-70 T*,Vario-Sonnar 4,5-5,6/100-300 T*
Leitz: Elmarit-R 2.8/28 E55 II, Summicron-R 35 I, Elmarit-R Wetzlar 2.8/35 E55 II, Summicron-R 2/50 Wetzlar I, Macro Elmarit-R 2.8/60 I, Summicron-R 2/90 E55 I, Elmarit-R 2,8/90 I, Elmarit-R Wetzlar 2,8/135 I, Elmarit-R 2.8/180 Wetzlar E67 II, Vario Elmar 4/70-210 E60, MR Telyt-R 8/500
Schneider: Xenar 2.8/50
Russian: Industar 50-2, Industar 61,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm, MC 3M-5CA 8/500
Meyer: Pentacon 3,5/30, Domiplan 2,8/50, Trioplan 2,9/50, Trioplan 3,5/75, Trioplan 2,8/100, Orestor 2,8/135mm, Orestegon 4/200
ISCO: Westron 2,8/35, Westron 3,5/35, Tele-Westanar 3,5/135, Tele-Westanar 4/180
Yashica: ML 15, ML 21, ML 24, ML 28, ML 35, ML 100/3.5 Macro,
Nikon: Nikkor AI 2,0/24, Nikkor AIS 2,0/28, Nikkor Ai 1,8/50, Nikkor-P (Sonnar) 2,5/105 silver, Nikkor-P (Gauss) 2,5/105 black
Steinheil Cassar 3,5-4,5/75 VL, Quinar 3,5/85, Culminar 4,5/105, Culminar 4,5/135, Auto-D Tele Quinar 2,8/135
Tomioka Tomioka - Cosinon 1,2/55, Tomioka - Revuenon 1,4/55
Voigtländer: Septon 2/50
Others: Officine Galileo Ingra 3,5/5cm, Wilon 4,5/75, Dallmeyer 4,5/4", Bonotar 4,5/105,
Lenses for sale, please contact via PM: None at the moment
Last edited by MF-addicted on Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
Hi David,
Your lens #3418808 is quite near mine #3418060.
This prewar design and postwar manufactured fully manual version has a protruding rear element which at infinity can hit some mirrors (or glass adapters). It clears the Bessaflex' mirror by what seems to be perhaps only 0.3mm
I have not yet seen this first version with 1Q stamp, maybe the export standard quality control was introduced later and not immediately after WW2?
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Nikkor AF/AF-S DX: 10.5/2.8G Fisheye, 12-24/4G, 18-70/3.5-4.5G
Topcor: Auto-Topcor 58/1.4,
Voigtländer SL: 40/2 Ultron, 58/1.4 Nokton, 75/2.5 Color-Heliar, 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar, 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar, 180/4 APO-Lanthar
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633
Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
Both will be made from aluminum
Klaus
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MF-addicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 803
Location: Stuttgart (Germany)
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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MF-addicted wrote:
| Quote: |
Both will be made from aluminum
Klaus |
I think for the silver one you are right.
My black Biotar is made of brass (messing) and painted black.
_________________
EOS 5D MK II, EOS 5D Classic, EOS 400D --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Canon FD to EOS converted: FD 1,4/24 asph, FD 2,8/300 L
Carl Zeiss Jena:Pancolar 2/50, black Biotar 2/5,8cm 17bl., slim Biotar 1,5/7,5cm 18bl., Pancolar 1,8/80mm, Sonnar 3,5/135, Triotar 4/135
Carl Zeiss: Distagon 4/18T*, Distagon 1,4/35 HFT, Planar 1,4/50 T*, Vario-Sonnar 3,4/35-70 T*,Vario-Sonnar 4,5-5,6/100-300 T*
Leitz: Elmarit-R 2.8/28 E55 II, Summicron-R 35 I, Elmarit-R Wetzlar 2.8/35 E55 II, Summicron-R 2/50 Wetzlar I, Macro Elmarit-R 2.8/60 I, Summicron-R 2/90 E55 I, Elmarit-R 2,8/90 I, Elmarit-R Wetzlar 2,8/135 I, Elmarit-R 2.8/180 Wetzlar E67 II, Vario Elmar 4/70-210 E60, MR Telyt-R 8/500
Schneider: Xenar 2.8/50
Russian: Industar 50-2, Industar 61,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm, MC 3M-5CA 8/500
Meyer: Pentacon 3,5/30, Domiplan 2,8/50, Trioplan 2,9/50, Trioplan 3,5/75, Trioplan 2,8/100, Orestor 2,8/135mm, Orestegon 4/200
ISCO: Westron 2,8/35, Westron 3,5/35, Tele-Westanar 3,5/135, Tele-Westanar 4/180
Yashica: ML 15, ML 21, ML 24, ML 28, ML 35, ML 100/3.5 Macro,
Nikon: Nikkor AI 2,0/24, Nikkor AIS 2,0/28, Nikkor Ai 1,8/50, Nikkor-P (Sonnar) 2,5/105 silver, Nikkor-P (Gauss) 2,5/105 black
Steinheil Cassar 3,5-4,5/75 VL, Quinar 3,5/85, Culminar 4,5/105, Culminar 4,5/135, Auto-D Tele Quinar 2,8/135
Tomioka Tomioka - Cosinon 1,2/55, Tomioka - Revuenon 1,4/55
Voigtländer: Septon 2/50
Others: Officine Galileo Ingra 3,5/5cm, Wilon 4,5/75, Dallmeyer 4,5/4", Bonotar 4,5/105,
Lenses for sale, please contact via PM: None at the moment
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horvlas
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 202
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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horvlas wrote:
I have the first, older version too, Ser no starts with 3351xxx, not bad performer, but Helios 44-7 is better in my tests. |
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wol
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 63
Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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wol wrote:
I love that aperture! So much blades  |
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Petzval 1840
Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 103
Location: N.E. of Spain (Europe)
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Petzval 1840 wrote:
Hello:
I show them a photo taken on December 8 with the Biotar design of pre war, to f:4. " Top model " is my dog female " Rams ", which always wants to raise the wagon of the tractor, when I am going to look for hay for my old mare (30 years) and my two female donkeys.
Bests Regards: David
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
Hi David.
It would be very interesting if you could make a comparison of both lenses and see how they work.
Thanks.
Hola David.
Seria muy interesante si pudiera hacer una comparative de ambos lentes, aver como se comportan.
Gracias y disculpa el atrevimiento.
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taunusreiter
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 127
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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taunusreiter wrote:
They share the same optical calculation (date 1936).
For the second version, a hood may be negligible
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Petzval 1840
Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 103
Location: N.E. of Spain (Europe)
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Petzval 1840 wrote:
Hello all the People:
The Biotar design post-WW2 has the ring of the diaphragm blocked to maximum opening: only I can compare with same diaphragm.
What type of tests do they suggest me to compare them? The design pre-WW2 was used like lens of enlarger and he suffered temperature for which was not designed.
Greetings: David |
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lulalake
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1191
Location: Near Austin Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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lulalake wrote:
I don’t know if this link has been posted but it’s several lists of lens and Compur shutter serial numbers and the dates of manufacture.
I have dated a CJZ Tessar folder lens of mine and its Compur shutter to the war years. Pretty amazing:
Jules |
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