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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:59 am Post subject: The most extreme bokeh I've yet seen! |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hi folks
I adapted a strange old lens to fit my EOS and discovered it has the smallest dof and most extreme fall off from in focus to so blurred as to be unrecognisable I have ever seen.
Due to the extremely narrow dof, focusing with this lens is a nightmare, these are the only in-focus shots I have managed to get so far, it's not all that sharp and contrast is lacking, but the bokeh is, imho amazing and makes the images more like paintings than photographs in some ways.
100% crop:
This shot looks like nothing is in focus, then you notice the label at the bottom of the frame:
In this shot, the clothes peg less than 0.5m behind the peg that is in focus is so blurred as to have almost vanished from the picture:
The two yellow pegs are only 5cm apart and look at the difference in how blurred they are, the other pegs in the distance are just coloured blobs:
This shot illustrates clearly the incredibly shallow dof. The area in focus is midway between the two LED lights and is no more than 2-3cm in depth, the light nearest the camera is no more than 15-20cm from the in-focus point and has completely disappeared into a massive blur:
In this shot, the infocus area is only 1-2cm behind the light but still the light is totally blurred, the light behind is blurred to the point of being unrecognisable, the one behind that is just a blob and the fourth in line has disappeared altogether:
100% crop, the area where it is actually in focus is sort of sharp as you can see the resinous trichomes on the flower:
I know some of you guys like Rino and Klaus are uber-experts at ID-ing lenses so I'm not giving you any clues at all about this lens other than to tell you it is one I have already posted about owning and it is German. Best of all, I paid 1.50 euros for it.
So fire away, if anyone manages to guess what this lens is, I'll be flabbergasted...
P.S. I haven't modified it in any way, just cleaned it of dust, dirt and fungus...
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 755
Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
Ian,
If this isn't too silly a question, if you've cleaned the lens you imply that you've stripped it yes? Ae you sure that you've re-aasembled it exactly as it was and not put something out of adjustment?
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I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
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35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| tikkathree wrote: |
Ian,
If this isn't too silly a question, if you've cleaned the lens you imply that you've stripped it yes? Ae you sure that you've re-aasembled it exactly as it was and not put something out of adjustment? |
Actually, I haven't had to take it apart, the dirt and fungus was all on the outside surfaces of the front and rear elements.
It's just a very strange lens to be using with a camera.
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
You need to try the Cyclop if you want insane bokeh!!!  |
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Wow, the rendering is very cool and sharp enough.
Waiting for the answer from Rino & Klaus
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Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
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FOR SALE
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
I think I remember you posting about something that went between the lens and camera? Is that close enough?
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Of course, Martyn is correct. This from my Cyclop when the rear element was loose (I may go back and loosen it again):
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Oh I would love a Cyklop, one day I'll find one at a reasonable price.
It was that lens and the Helios-40 that inspired me to try removing the rear group from a Helios-44 to make it have really swirly bokeh.
It worked but I need to take some better shots with it:
As for this lens, it is a complete lens, no add-ons between camera and lens or added to front of lens, just a big honking old lens intended for a very different purpose originally...
It has no aperture, I'm going to try making a cardboard disk with hole in and inserting that behind the rear element to form a crude fixed aperture and hopefully increase the dof to make it a little more easy to get things in focus.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I've sawed an inch off the back of the lens to lighten and shorten it and allow it to hit infinity, which it now does, but it's still dark here so can't take any test shots.
I have made a crude aperture out of a cardboard disk with a hole in it. Instead of cutting a boring round hole I made it star-shaped.
It has increased the dof somewhat but I think I made the star too big as it's still got a very shallow dof.
Some indoor shots, just testing the lens with crude aperture fitted:
This shot of some very out of focus street lights shows you the shap of the aperture:
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
We need to see the lens now Especially since you have sawn an inch off the end |
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pat donnelly
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Posts: 666
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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pat donnelly wrote:
Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?Please?
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Here are a couple of snaps of this lens, it's a big lump of metal and glass, this is after shortening it by an inch:
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
Looks like a weighty piece of kit - thanks! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Very weighty, ergonomics are similar to Tair-3c but it's even heavier, I will weigh it later, 3-5 kilos is my guess.
So more pics I shot today with the star-shaped cardboard aperture in place:
Get it slightly out of focus and all the reflection highlights turn into strange stars:
The further out of focus, the greater the effect:
Very out of focus and you get nothing but stars:
The aperture has increased dof a little:
But bokeh is rather busy and strange to my eyes:
While the lens does hit infinity, the shallow dof makes closer objects blurred so I need to make a smaller aperture for infinity shooting I think:
100% crop:
The shallow dof became a real problem when trying to shoot these seagulls:
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hmm, 390 views and little interest, I thought people would be interested in a DIY lens mounting...
I removed the star-shaped aperture and fitted on that had a small round hole about 8mm in diameter, not sure what f-stop this relates to exactly, but I think it would be around f22.
It has definitely made the dof a lot deeper, contrast is still low, must make a hood to fit this beast!
I notice that when focused at infinity, objects far away are sharp but those within 80-100m are soft, I think this means the lens is slightly to close to the sensor, I'll have to add a shim and try it again.
At least this proves the lens can produce a sharp image, but the poor glare handling and low contrast need to be addressed, I'll try it again tomorrow with an aperture roughly equivalent to f8...
100% crop, notice how the distant objects are sharp but the man's face isn't:
This shot illustrates things perfectly, look at the left of frame, that part is sharp, anything closer is out of focus:
Just to prove it is sharp on distant objects:
100% crop:
Bokeh becomes much less interesting with this small aperture:
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Drack
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 735
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Drack wrote:
Awesome pics iangreenhalgh1. I especially like the star effect. It really opens a new area for experimentation.
Recently I`ve got my first dslr camera (pentax K-x ) and took my russian lens collection out for some testing.
This picture was taken with a Industar 61 L/Z 2.8/50mm lens , wide open. Love everything about the lens, especially it`s bokeh. Enjoy.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hiya Drack, good to meet ya, a Pentax DSLR and a collection of Russian lenses sounds like a great way to make some lovely pictures to me!
The I-61 L/Z is a lens I have wanted to obtain for ages, particularly because of how fast it transitions from in focus to out of focus, which gives it that killer bokeh, your shot illustrates this perfectly!
I enjoy making unusual 'artistic' images with unusual lenses more than I do making technically correct images, that's the artist in me, I'm also a painter, so I'm always trying to come up with new experimental ideas, the unusual-shaped aperture idea is one I'm going to have to explore further, finding the right subject is the first task I think, then to try different aperture disks. These cardboard ones are very crude, I intend to make some nice metal ones with my rotary tool and a cutting disk, the lids from old baked bean tins are what I intend to use, I'll update with pics when I try them.
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aspen
Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 307
Location: Maryland, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
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aspen wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| I intend to make some nice metal ones with my rotary tool and a cutting disk, the lids from old baked bean tins are what I intend to use, I'll update with pics when I try them. |
Fun thread, Ian. I look forward to the next set of pictures. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers man, I'm having fun with this lens and that's the point, right?
So far I think this project has cost about 10ukp, to me, that's good value for the pleasure given.
I've made a really cool 16-point starburst aperture out of a metal lid from a baked bean tin, I'm going to collect more lids and make a variety of apertures to play with, I'm going to make one with many small holes, god knows what kind of bokeh that will make or whether it will even make a decent image or not...
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
I like the "pepperpot" idea. Look forward to seeing the results |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I tried this 16-pointed starburst shape as an aperture, it works, gives the bokeh a strange look:
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
Interesting piece of metal. Thx for sharing this. 
To me it looks a bit hazy?!? 
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, very hazy, and that's after turning the contrast way up in PP.
I need to make a lens hood for this lens, it was a very sunny day today and it couldn't cope at all with the glare, just need to find something big enough to fit this beast!
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 1869
Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Hey, Ian,
I'm exceedingly interested in your home-made lens. I just bought a few old lenses of unknown mount and make on eBay and I'm hoping to turn a couple into home-made lenses. How did you go about fitting the diaphragm? When you say you chopped an inch off, do you literally mean with a hack saw? I'm interested in the any details you'd like to share about the physical process you went through to modify it. Also, what did you do wrong that you wish you had done correctly?
David
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hiya David
I'll come clean, this lens is a Rathenower Optische Werke Visionar 1.9/168mm projection lens as used in cinemas.
I can take some pics tomorrow of what I've done to the lens, which isn't much, I just used a hacksaw to cut an inch off the back, the rear element is recessed inside the barrel a fair bit so this inch was just empty tube.
The aperture just fits snugly inside the rear of the lens, directly behind the rear element, seems to work okay.
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