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The Industar-61 mystery
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject: The Industar-61 mystery Reply with quote

Hi!
I've often stumbled about the Industar-61.
First I did read some myths about it beeing an extremly high lp/mm lens due to the extraordinary LD Tessar design - but in the meanwhile I found that are only myths and nothing more, actually all my tested 55/2.8 LDs copies where not better and even inferior to many normal Tessars and after all me and that lens never got friends, as most faster 50mm lenses are better Wink

Anyway I'm still interested of the other Industar-61's
The most common I think are

-M42 Industar-61 50mm F2.8 "L/Z"
-Leica M39 Industar-61 52mm F2.8
-Leica M39 Industar-61 55mm F2.8 "L/D"

According to a few reviews and user comments they seem to be visibly different in their IQ, they are only sharing cold colors and maybe similar bokeh.
It's a little mystery for me - why do they all share the Industar-61 name, even if they have different such focal lengths and IQ?
They are all Tessars as far as I know, but Industar 50, Industar-26, Industar-22 and maybe more very similar Industar lenses are Tessars aswell and they but don't share the same name.
What's so special about the 61?

And last but not least which one is the best?


Last edited by ForenSeil on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:35 am; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They are all Tessars as far as I know, but Industar 50, Industar-26, Industar-22 and maybe more very similar Industar lenses and Tessars aswell they but don't share the same name.
What's so special about the 61?


Not the same formula (even if they all are Tessar).

You can see here different diagrams of all usual Industar's : http://t.hacquard.free.fr/site1/industar.html

About IQ difference between the versions of 61, depend of the date of production (with different coating), like many russian lenses... 61 LZ has 2 different coating, and also exist MC version...so it can have influence...


PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would appear that some I-61's are made in different factories too. Did the factory alter the specs for their particular variant??


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would appear that some I-61's are made in different factories too. Did the factory alter the specs for their particular variant??

1. Yes.
2. Yes.

The Industar-61 was manufactured at least at 4 variations at KMZ and LZOS. All the variants have different MFDs, number of aperture blades and light transmission (according to manufacturer's manual data).

I made a little review of my copy of Industar-61 L/Z and shortly described the differencies between various models. See the review here:

http://aflenses.ru/reviews/a-subjective-look-at-industar-61-lz-f28-50-m42-fujifilm-x-pro1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: The Industar-61 mystery Reply with quote

ForenSeil wrote:
Hi!
Anyway I'm still interested of the other Industar-61's
The most common I think are

-M42 Industar-61 50mm F2.8 "L/Z"
-Leica M39 Industar-61 52mm F2.8
-Leica M39 Industar-61 55mm F2.8 "L/D"


All Industar-61 have same FL - 52.42mm. Differences in markings means nothing. Differences in specifications caused by different quality control(e.g. different in specifications MC Helios-44M-4 and M-5/6/7 optically is the same but M-4 controlled by checking one from 100 and M-5/6/7 checked totally so average M-4 = M-6).


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: The Industar-61 mystery Reply with quote

nukemall wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
Hi!
Anyway I'm still interested of the other Industar-61's
The most common I think are

-M42 Industar-61 50mm F2.8 "L/Z"
-Leica M39 Industar-61 52mm F2.8
-Leica M39 Industar-61 55mm F2.8 "L/D"


All Industar-61 have same FL - 52.42mm. Differences in markings means nothing. Differences in specifications caused by different quality control(e.g. different in specifications MC Helios-44M-4 and M-5/6/7 optically is the same but M-4 controlled by checking one from 100 and M-5/6/7 checked totally so average M-4 = M-6).


I don't think all H-44 are totaly identical. Something has to be different, because they have differents perf stats (officialy). I think this is because of coating differences.
For exemple, rsolution :

MC Гелиос-44М-4 41/20 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44K-4 42/21 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-5 41/20 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-6 45/25 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-7 50/30 линий/мм

or light tranmission coefficient :

MC Гелиос-44М-4 0,85
MC Гелиос-44K-4 0,85
MC Гелиос-44М-5 0,85
MC Гелиос-44М-6 0,90
MC Гелиос-44М-7 0,90

from zenitcamera.com : http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html

But it's true that optical diagram has to be the same, since soviet always changed the number of the lens if the diagram is different, even minor change, like for the Helios-77, or Helios-94 with Helios-103.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: The Industar-61 mystery Reply with quote

nukemall wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
Hi!
Anyway I'm still interested of the other Industar-61's
The most common I think are

-M42 Industar-61 50mm F2.8 "L/Z"
-Leica M39 Industar-61 52mm F2.8
-Leica M39 Industar-61 55mm F2.8 "L/D"


All Industar-61 have same FL - 52.42mm. Differences in markings means nothing. Differences in specifications caused by different quality control(e.g. different in specifications MC Helios-44M-4 and M-5/6/7 optically is the same but M-4 controlled by checking one from 100 and M-5/6/7 checked totally so average M-4 = M-6).


As far as I recall, it's not quite true. All Industar-61 are indeed the same design. The difference in the marking is because they were marking them with real focal length as measured on the bench as opposed to nominal one. I recall seeing 50, 52, 53, and 55mm Industars.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


DSC00817 by unoh7, on Flickr

I waited 6 weeks to get this little thing from Ukraine, it think.

Like nearly all the Russian lenses I've bought it had serious issues. After many attempts I now have come to the conclusion I can't afford Russian glass. LOL

If you have a great copy of a jupi 3 or 8 or 12, they are fine, but great copies i think are all in a kremlin vault, or at least tucked away by enthusiasts.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Does anyone know how the 2.8/53 M39 version compares?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhoh7 wrote:

DSC00817 by unoh7, on Flickr

I waited 6 weeks to get this little thing from Ukraine, it think.

Like nearly all the Russian lenses I've bought it had serious issues. After many attempts I now have come to the conclusion I can't afford Russian glass. LOL

If you have a great copy of a jupi 3 or 8 or 12, they are fine, but great copies i think are all in a kremlin vault, or at least tucked away by enthusiasts.


I've got a lot of soviet lenses, I never had problem with seller from ukraine... What was your issue?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not had any problems with any of the soviet M39 lenses I've got. But both of the Helios lenses I had were having serious old-age issues (like a wobbly mount and sticking aperture).

I've got an Industar 61 on a Fed 3 I'm currently running film through so I'm interested in seeing how that turns out.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like uhoh7's version is the one I just asked about. Does anyone know how it compares to other models?


PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhoh7 wrote:

DSC00817 by unoh7, on Flickr

I waited 6 weeks to get this little thing from Ukraine, it think.

Like nearly all the Russian lenses I've bought it had serious issues. After many attempts I now have come to the conclusion I can't afford Russian glass. LOL

If you have a great copy of a jupi 3 or 8 or 12, they are fine, but great copies i think are all in a kremlin vault, or at least tucked away by enthusiasts.

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with Russian glass, I have an Industar 61 L/D (LTM) for parts if you want it, only the mount is missing.

I also have an I 61 in Contax RF mount.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both the I-61 L/D, L/Z and I-61. The m42 is the most interesting IMO. I can`t really spot any differences between I-61 and I-61 L/D. The I-26m was the first version. The Industar-22 is also is similar and came in almost 30 different models!


PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first i-61, pick'd up 30min ago.

I've noticed problem with focus - 1m is 1m, but infinity is around 3.5m