Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Sony a7r samples with Heliar 12mm - iso5000 - unbelievable
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Digital Rangefinder / Viewfinder Cameras
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
some wide lens seems ok for some tester and bad for other
it seems that problem appear at infinity where the lens is nearest to the sensor and angle of ray greater
it seems that even the native Sonnar FE 35 have color vignetting on the A7r
so no magical with the a7r, digital sensor are still years behind film
to enjoy your rangefinder lenses, use your trusted full frame film bodies Razz

p.s : I can confirm that penis don't get longer by using dslr, but it is well know that using Zeiss & Leica lenses definitely made nose longer Laughing

calvin83 wrote:
Some new sample in RAW and jpeg from a A7/A7R with v1.00 Firmware

impressive resolution with the a7r !


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
M4/3 body with Samyang 7.5mm fisheye makes more natural looking image with fraction of the cost of this combo Wink

12mm (or 12mm equivalent) rectilinear lens doesn't make sense to me...

Google image search found this comparison:



PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riku wrote:
M4/3 body with Samyang 7.5mm fisheye makes more natural looking image with fraction of the cost of this combo Wink

12mm (or 12mm equivalent) rectilinear lens doesn't make sense to me...

Google image search found this comparison:



Not a good idea to compare apples to oranges.
Also, this is not about WHICH camera system ANYONE of us PREFERS.
Nor was the subject 12mm lenses.

We are talking about a FF sensor in pocket size.
THIS the key point.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:

Not a good idea to compare apples to oranges.
Also, this is not about WHICH camera system ANYONE of us PREFERS.
Nor was the subject 12mm lenses.

We are talking about a FF sensor in pocket size.
THIS the key point.


Samyang is available for (APS-C) Nex too. What are the options if you want to choose fisheye instead of this 12mm Heliar for (fullframe) Sony?


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riku wrote:
Nikos wrote:

Not a good idea to compare apples to oranges.
Also, this is not about WHICH camera system ANYONE of us PREFERS.
Nor was the subject 12mm lenses.

We are talking about a FF sensor in pocket size.
THIS the key point.


Samyang is available for (APS-C) Nex too. What are the options if you want to choose fisheye instead of this 12mm Heliar for (fullframe) Sony?

Well, I cannot wait to put my Zeiss Fisheye Distagon on a Sony A7.
Want to guess if it is better than the Samyang?
I got it for 300€.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
Riku wrote:
M4/3 body with Samyang 7.5mm fisheye makes more natural looking image with fraction of the cost of this combo Wink

12mm (or 12mm equivalent) rectilinear lens doesn't make sense to me...

Google image search found this comparison:



Not a good idea to compare apples to oranges.
Also, this is not about WHICH camera system ANYONE of us PREFERS.
Nor was the subject 12mm lenses.

We are talking about a FF sensor in pocket size.
THIS the key point.


absolutely! and the truth is we just do not know how this will work with rf lenses, single examples notwithstanding. what we DO know is:
--no one ever put a mirrorless FF 36mp sensor in a compact package capable of mounting virtually every lens ever made and sold it for $2000;
--36mp is approaching digital medium format resolution;
--sony itself said the A7R was made with a microlens array, and lack of AA filter, to maximize use with legacy glass, so that was a goal;
--no leica M digital can shoot all WA rf lenses without IQ problems;
--if leica couldnt make a camera compatible with all its own lenses when thats all they do, no other manufacturer should be expected to do so;
--nonetheless there will be WA lens options for this camera, even in rf category, but it will just be limited;
--at 36mp, when a lens does work, it will deliver results most of us have never experienced and could not/would not afford previously.

however jaded we are, whether we personally want this or not, these facts in and of themselves should be exciting and produce some kind of positive feeling; otherwise what the heck are we are we doing with this hobby? but until a final version is publicly available and thoroughly tested, everything else is really just white noise.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
.however jaded we are, whether we personally want this or not, these facts in and of themselves should be exciting and produce some kind of positive feeling; otherwise what the heck are we are we doing with this hobby? but until a final version is publicly available and thoroughly tested, everything else is really just white noise.


This.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 to last post of rbelyell entirely!

rbelyell wrote:

--no one ever put a mirrorless FF 36mp sensor in a compact package capable of mounting virtually every lens ever made and sold it for $2000;


a FF for below 2000.- only a very short while ago often was stated as the hope for the immediate future.
now we have it and more importantly with all the listed additional characteristics making it a very interesting proposition for manual lens users!
In time we will find out it's limitations, but for starters I cannot be but very, very excited

uhoh7 wrote:
I have coveted the cv 12 for 3 years or so, thus I'm familiar with the lens.

First: this lens works well on the M9, with very mild colorshift. It's the cv15 that shifts alot. Corners and edges are quite good on both with the M9.

The big problem is the issue of smearing, which can't be fixed, vs color shift which can be addressed PP. Hence both can produce spectacular images on the M9. Superior to the M240, from what I hear, anyway...


I from what I read here and there the same, less problems with the CV12mm and more with the CV15mm, seems to hold true if used on any digital camera. The more remarkable, as I tried to show in other threads, how very well Ricoh GXR M handles the CV15mm.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Otus on the A7r ->

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/otus.jpg


Pictures here ->

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/30/day-two-sony-a7-and-a7r-with-zeiss-otus-and-more/


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
very interesting links Hari, thank you.

for me most the remarkable quotes from there.

on use of M lenses, specially wide angels, quote:
"In regards to Leica M Mount lenses using adapters…The A7r has issues with the 12, 15 and 21mm focal length, even 28mm to some extent. The A7 had some slight vignetting with the 15 and 21 but no real color shift. Not nearly as much as the A7r. So if you are one who was planning on using WIDE ANGLE Leica M mount glass, go for the A7."

and his, so far, final thoughts, quote:
"The IQ coming from these JPEGS is astonishing. They look better to me than what comes out of my Leica M with color and sharpness. High ISO as well. While the cameras are not perfect (loud shutter, not Leica build or feel, not the fastest AF using native FE glass (not as fast as E-M1) and an overall slower feel when using it (then again, so is medium format) the Sony A7 and A7r are quite special for what they offer at their price point. I would take one of these over ANY full frame DSLR any day of the week, and at a small fraction of the cost of a Leica M body, there is nothing bad to say about the A7 and A7r. In fact, I think it has some of the M9 look mixed with the M look! Using it is not the same as an M but the results ROCK."

Last edited by kuuan on Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hari wrote:
Otus on the A7r ->

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/otus.jpg


Pictures here ->

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/30/day-two-sony-a7-and-a7r-with-zeiss-otus-and-more/


interesting words:
Quote:

In regards to Leica M Mount lenses using adapters…The A7r has issues with the 12, 15 and 21mm focal length, even 28mm to some extent. The A7 had some slight vignetting with the 15 and 21 but no real color shift. Not nearly as much as the A7r. So if you are one who was planning on using WIDE ANGLE Leica M mount glass, go for the A7.

The A7R offers pure power in resolution and that is about the only advantage it gives over the cheaper A7 (besides slight build on the dials). I love both but the A7 shutter is quieter, the AF is faster and the camera costs less and does better with wide angle Leica M glass!


I guess we've been complaining about the unshaved lady, so Steve used a horse instead:

Otus on A7r 100%


Steve's conclusion:
Quote:

While the cameras are not perfect (loud shutter, not Leica build or feel, not the fastest AF using native FE glass (not as fast as E-M1) and an overall slower feel when using it (then again, so is medium format) the Sony A7 and A7r are quite special for what they offer at their price point. I would take one of these over ANY full frame DSLR any day of the week, and at a small fraction of the cost of a Leica M body, there is nothing bad to say about the A7 and A7r.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OMG the Otus is hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

In different forums their are many naysayers who whine about this camera not having IBIS and all other kinds of BS though these peole have no knowledge about electronics or physics but they keep demanding things which may be possible only in the distant future!!! Iam just amazed how this people can demand and say that this is a failed product when compared to a LEICA Body !!! But frankly i think this people are idiots , some just hate SONY becuase SONY dosent have a legacy in the camera industry ,some are dismayed by the fact that SONY is making Imaging sensors for other makers , some a jelous that their favourite brand didnt have the guts to do what SONY has done .Well for those people i say atleast SONY has done something that even a normal person like me who dosent get so much a penny from this hobby can one day hold a real FF digital camera!!! no speed booster/lens turbo needed and see the real feel of the image given out by my so far little collection of fantasctic lenses!!!A little careful planing on my side and it will be a possibilty. Personally i will probably never shoot for any magazine or print 60ft long banners so i dont really care about distortion with wide angle lenses , as someone has already pointed out even leica do incamera software adjustments for wide angle lenses ,but atleast SONY did try to rethink its sensor design to make use of wide angle lenses a bit easier!!Yes the current images are from a preproduction camera and i think Sony has purposefully lend this camera to leica users to test them ,and get opinion from them ,i think the final product will be much much better than this!!! Kudos to SONY for making this camera!!!


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
raay04 wrote:
OMG the Otus is hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Its price is even more hugeeeeee Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
with regard to steve's 'conclusions' on WA's, please note as he did, that he did not 'test' them, only took a few shots with 1 or 2 lenses, and no landscapes. his 'conclusions' were limited to vignetting and color shift, both of which are easily correctable, with no mention of landscape edge detail, which is not. i like steve, but i really think he jumped the gun drawing any conclusions from his very limited sampling.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
regarding 'evaluation' of Steve's remarks I 100% agree, Tony.

a thread at dpreview discussing first test pics and also Steve's remarks regarding use of RF wide angles on the A7/A7r:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3567848


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
with regard to steve's 'conclusions' on WA's, please note as he did, that he did not 'test' them, only took a few shots with 1 or 2 lenses, and no landscapes. his 'conclusions' were limited to vignetting and color shift, both of which are easily correctable, with no mention of landscape edge detail, which is not. i like steve, but i really think he jumped the gun drawing any conclusions from his very limited sampling.

+1

now, on the subject of dicks, I can't really comment Wink but I can say: posts and samples from exotic and personally unattainable lenses, whether the they start with "Z" or that other letter, induces salivation in many red-blooded MF enthusiasts. That gentlemen, is a fact.

drip drip drip....Smile

One last note: I had a friend once, who could not be bothered to housetrain his pets, then was somewhat astonished when guests objected to the shit all over the house. After the 100th pile, I stopped blaming the pet. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh, your last allegory reminds me of the kind given by japanese zen masters to their 'students'; and i guess the follow up is that we are hit with a stick each time we misinterpret it? ):


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
there is no interpretation, don't step into shit Wink

Last edited by kuuan on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
uhoh, your last allegory reminds me of the kind given by japanese zen masters to their 'students'; and i guess the follow up is that we are hit with a stick each time we misinterpret it? ):


I will say, sir, when it comes to sticks, you are the zen master.

Your post at the other place about taking pictures by poking a hole through dog poop was quite simply the most masterful takedown I have ever seen on the internet or anywhere else, for that matter, lol Smile

Compared to your keyboard, a Hattori Hanzo samurai sword is nothing but a dull butterknife.

I bow to your serene supremacy.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
you both are too funny. i literally laughed out loud at both posts.
tony


PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is ISO 5000?

It looks like 10Mpix P&S ISO 80 or 100
or ISO 200..400 if you look closely at the lack of saturation, contrast and the texture smudging (blousons, carpet)

Probabły more like P&S ISO 400 and good faking image processing for things like letters and texts

Still impressive

You don't like the lens? Yeah it seems to have CA corners or at least CA bokeh (spherochromatism) but you got to acknowledge that the 12 mm used like this gives very "dynamic" image

I won't buy a7 don't even think about it. No-brainer. It takes E mount, not A mount like all my lenses are. Then you dont even get the nice compact package advantage of E mount. Sony, anyone home? So I am stingy and here comes the offer to shell out 2000 bucks I don't have for something that won't mount my lenses (and no former E-mount lenses too?). No stabilizer (IIRC)? Um yeah sure. There's a Sony victim born either minute I guess.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
as much as I know there are adapters for A mount lenses that offer all the automatisms as on an SLT or earlier Sony and Minolta SLRs, existing E mount lenses for APS-C will work in crop mode. Buerokratiehasser the A7/r or any other Sony camera definitely is not for you but be assured that many of us who choose a Sony do that fully aware, that you calling us victims says more about you than about 'us' Wink


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As you may know, I am a "Sony victim" myself, if only for 200 bucks net.

So I have the right to self-deprecation I suppose, and I am just sort of royally focused off by slow web and support pages - strike that, glacially slow pages, SLT flash 300 ms issues, yet another incompatible lens mount, rootkits, camera too good and snobby to show images recorded with other brands properly, etc etc.

I do love stabilized shooting with any lens, and the camera itself is not bad, but a ot of that is the Minolta legacy.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
More pre-production samples here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/camera-reviews/sony/a7r/sony-a7rA7.HTM

RAW files look cooked to me Sad


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If Sony are going to cook the RAW files from all their cameras in future then I won't be buying any more Sonys. Sad
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Digital Rangefinder / Viewfinder Cameras
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2