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Sony A7 and RF wides: a possible solution.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
uhoh7 wrote:
tromboads wrote:
...so 5 pages later. if you want to shoot wide angle buy a M9, or a Pentax SLR with it's DA15mm Razz

Unfortunately there is considerable misinformation and pre-judgement in the 5 pages.

There may very soon be a serious M9/240 alternative with key RF wides in a number of hands, including my own.

Lloyd Chambers, who has forgotten more than Gerald will ever guess, claims this is the case after extensive testing with exactly the mod which is the subject of this thread, on the A7r, which has the problem worse than the A7.

But maybe you don't care to entertain the possibility, but prefer do dismiss the idea before it's really put to the test, as do several people, for apparently psychological reasons Smile


If it works, I'll be delighted because the Biogon 2.8/35 is perhaps my favourite lens and with the rapidly falling prices of the A7 secondhand....

The new Loxia 35mm f2 is a Biogon. It is designed to work with any A7..


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
The new Loxia 35mm f2 is a Biogon. It is designed to work with any A7..

Doesn't it lock you into Sony platform? The thing that tweaks my pleasure gland with this work by Kolarivision it that it allows mf fans to continue to treat bodies as incidental and glass as their primary objective (excuse the pun).

btw many thanks uhoh7 for being an early adopter for this tech. Look forward to results!


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RnR wrote:
memetph wrote:
The new Loxia 35mm f2 is a Biogon. It is designed to work with any A7..

Doesn't it lock you into Sony platform? The thing that tweaks my pleasure gland with this work by Kolarivision it that it allows mf fans to continue to treat bodies as incidental and glass as their primary objective (excuse the pun).

btw many thanks uhoh7 for being an early adopter for this tech. Look forward to results!


Which is the FF digital camera which has the highest compatibility regarding the lenses ?


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
Which is the FF digital camera which has the highest compatibility regarding the lenses ?


Isn't the Leica M240? Just kidding! Mr. Green

In my opinion, the best FF camera to adapt MF lenses is the Sony A7II.
The Canon 5d and 6d are also very adaptable, but the optical viewfinder is not ideal for manual focusing.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gerald wrote:
memetph wrote:
Which is the FF digital camera which has the highest compatibility regarding the lenses ?


Isn't the Leica M240? Just kidding! Mr. Green

In my opinion, the best FF camera to adapt MF lenses is the Sony A7II.
The Canon 5d and 6d are also very adaptable, but the optical viewfinder is not ideal for manual focusing.


A nice platform to be locked to !


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The J-12 and the postwar Opton Biogon 2.8/35 are both superb on film. the J12 needs to be closed one stop to be really sharp and at f4 it has a nice 3d pop with Soonnar-like rendering and bokeh. The post-war Opton revision of the Biogon is better, sharp wide open, and out performs just about every other 35mm lens I've tried such as the Hexanon 2.8/35, Skoparex 3.4/35, Flektogon 2.4/35, Primagon 4.5/35, Curtagon 2.8/35, Canon FL 2.5/35 and a few others.


The J-12 can be nice also wide open and at close focus distance Very Happy

Here on A7, no crop nor PP


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The cat's eyes are almost wide open! Very Happy
What a strange clock. It is a pitty it became bokeh!

The center appears sharp but from this picture it is impossible to say anything about the sharpness at the edges.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gerald wrote:
The cat's eyes are almost wide open! Very Happy
What a strange clock. It is a pitty it became bokeh!

The center appears sharp but from this picture it is impossible to say anything about the sharpness at the edges.


indeed Laughing
I need to repaint the glass border of the rear element before any serious testing


the clock is more or less like this one, made by an old friend of mine https://www.etsy.com/it/listing/107272561/orologio-da-muro-in-acciaio?ref=shop_home_feat_1


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sry for cross post on these. A7m is back and looking very good.

A7M with Sonnetar 50/1.1


DSC00298 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC00293 by unoh7, on Flickr

Both wide open

Other users showing vast improvement with 50lux and ZM35/2 on A7r

ZM18:

DSC00220 by unoh7, on Flickr

Consider:
Used A7 easy to find for 900 + 400 for sensor mod and you have a camera not far off the M240 for RF lens performance, at a cost of 1300USD


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for posting, is that still vignetting from the 18mm I see?


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
looks good to me... corners from the ZM18 aren't suffer from smearing and vignetting can be corrected.



PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyrano wrote:
Thanks for posting, is that still vignetting from the 18mm I see?


the zm18 and all RF wides will vignette and cast colors without correction on both M9 and M240. This is expected and can be corrected with profiles in LR without too much trouble.

Smearing at the edges cannot be corrected and is why these lenses have not been widely used day to day on the A7 series, despite the fact they are compact and excellent.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
28 cron anyone?

You guys tell me, how's it doing?


DSC00327 by unoh7, 5.6


DSC00326 by unoh7, 5.6


DSC00335 by unoh7, 2.8


DSC00347 by unoh7, 5.6


DSC00346 by unoh7, f/3.8ish


DSC00363-2 by unoh7, f/8


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
here is the ZM35/2 which was also bad.


DSC00304 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC00306 by unoh7, on Flickr

these at f/5.6

I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.

AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.

Minimal PP on all these.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well. It looks like performance of native lenses drop slightly, but not nearly as much as the RF lenses improves. It is better to mess with a camera than messing with old nice lenses.

I wonder how much the mod would have improved the 20mm Russar LTM Surprised


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well.

The service is not available for the A7 II. The IBIS is probably problematic for sensor stack hacking.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well. It looks like performance of native lenses drop slightly, but not nearly as much as the RF lenses improves. It is better to mess with a camera than messing with old nice lenses.

I wonder how much the mod would have improved the 20mm Russar LTM Surprised


I believe any lens designed for film will be better on the A7M, compared to any Sony FF. How much will depend on various factors. The mod is not yet available for A7II, but it may be in 6 months.

With used A7 bodies so cheap, and life so short, one could ask, why wait? This is a "bird in the hand" Smile

28 cron 5.6

DSC00357 by unoh7, on Flickr


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RnR wrote:
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well.

The service is not available for the A7 II. The IBIS is probably problematic for sensor stack hacking.


They just don't have one yet.

The whole thing got started because one guy let Kolari have his A7 to play with for quite some time. AF works fine. I doubt IBIS will be effected, but who knows? You might be right, but I'd be surprised. They will probably claim it's harder and charge an extra hundred Smile


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
They just don't have one yet.

The whole thing got started because one guy let Kolari have his A7 to play with for quite some time. AF works fine. I doubt IBIS will be effected, but who knows? You might be right, but I'd be surprised. They will probably claim it's harder and charge an extra hundred Smile

I think you are right, its just a matter of time. I just saw that Kolari Vision offers some of their services for Olympus models that has IBIS. So at least they have experience in that area.

Just a quick question... you think the mod is overkill for a A7s? From my understanding the A7s already works nicely with most (all?) rangefinder glass. 12mp is fine for me, and I kinda like the silent shutter option with the incredible low light performance.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RnR wrote:
uhoh7 wrote:
They just don't have one yet.

The whole thing got started because one guy let Kolari have his A7 to play with for quite some time. AF works fine. I doubt IBIS will be effected, but who knows? You might be right, but I'd be surprised. They will probably claim it's harder and charge an extra hundred Smile

I think you are right, its just a matter of time. I just saw that Kolari Vision offers some of their services for Olympus models that has IBIS. So at least they have experience in that area.

Just a quick question... you think the mod is overkill for a A7s? From my understanding the A7s already works nicely with most (all?) rangefinder glass. 12mp is fine for me, and I kinda like the silent shutter option with the incredible low light performance.


A7s suffers from smearing on all these lenses. ZM18, SEM 21, 28cron and zm35/2, at infinity.

Which is not to say you should send it in, that would be a person call. Since it's the best stock, we have have to think it would be the best with the mod.

The S has the same thick stack, but the pixels are so big it's better than the others.

So far I have not seen a report on the S with the mod. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is ZM 18 at f/8 inifnity. Hair on sensor confirms vivek's prediction we will see more dust Smile

DSC00251 by unoh7, on Flickr

Yes, colorcast. This lens must be coded as 21/2.8 pre-asph to shoot clean on M9.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Uhoh7, can you post a sample with the altered colour code please. Cool


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The result of the modification looks pretty good to me. I might recommend my friend send his camera for modification when he started buying more RF lenses. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is the SEM21 wide open at f/3.4

DSC00375 by unoh7, on Flickr

This lens was sold even by A7s owners prior to A7m because of poor performance, despite fact it's incredible lens. It is now better WO on A7M than at f/11 on A7s

here "real" shots with it today:

DSC00534 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC00590 by unoh7, on Flickr

For me, so far, the thin sensor CG mod is well worth the money. Smile

My next most improved lens is the 28 cron. The ZM35/2 is also alot better but maybe a step down from the other two.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, I had a short weather break and managed to get some shots with two lenses I consider "worst case", the tiny CV 21 and 35 Skopars. I had no expectations, but I thought I might as well see what they would do.

Since there is big copy variation and many of these lenses are decentered, not to mention the variable of adapters, these should not be seen as definitive, but these lenses can at least do this well.


a7M_CV21_11 by unoh7, on Flickr


a7M_CV21_8 by unoh7, on Flickr


a7M_CV35_56 by unoh7, on Flickr


a7M_CV35_8 by unoh7, on Flickr

For me, these lenses were totally unusable with heavy smearing at all apertures with infinity shots like this on the A7 and A7r. Here a close look will reveal considerable strangeness, but I'd say they are way better. I would not use them, I don't even use them on the M9, although they are much better than this with that camera.
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