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Prakticar 1.8 50 Carl Zeiss Jena: Where have they gone?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:26 pm    Post subject: Prakticar 1.8 50 Carl Zeiss Jena: Where have they gone? Reply with quote
Hi,

recently my Prakticar 1.8 50 from Carl Zeiss Jena (no M42 but Pancolar type) was broken and thus I looked for a new one in ebay but could not find one.

According to Mr. Kröger from zeissikonveb.de this lense type is the Prakticar from Zeiss with the highest number of manufactured copies (https://zeissikonveb.de/start/objekt...pancolar2.html); unfortunately this did not help in ebay.

According to Thiele different batches were pruduced and I wanted to know whether they really exist. So I am looking of copies from the different batches and found allready some by asking in the German forum:

10485408-10485447 (Zero series)

10658145-10659144: 10657779 (!), 10658208, 10658560, 10659121, 10659131 (pandreas)

10932493-10936992: 10932537, 10932835, 10933460, 10933990, 10934146, 10934976, 10935048, 10935055, 10935438, 10936419

10954979-10959978: 10955915, 10956172

10959979-10962978:

10962979-10963478: 10963438

Batch, not known by Thiele, all marked with "aus Jena": 11017114, 11018940, 11020380

1001-3500: 1007, 1420, 1457, 1783, 1850

3501-11000: 4988, 5232, 7734, 7803, 8291, 8414, 8456, 8593, 8801, 9022, 9516

11001-16000


Some batches have no items yet or non sufficient. The very large batch of 7500 copies from 3501-11000 is a guess with papers lost. There is an item but only within the first 1500 numbers, so more higher numbers would be appreciated.

For the next batch with existing papers of 5000 copies from 11001-16000 I still could not find a copy.

Also for the batch 10962979-10963478 there is still no copy found.

In case you own a copy with one of the missing series numbers, please report them here! Please take care: I do neither look for copies of the Prakticar 1.4 50 nor of those 1.8 50 Prakticars marked mith Carl Zeiss Jena and an additional P but only by those Prakticar 1.8 50 beeing marked with Carl Zeiss Jena only or "aus Jena". They have the closest distance of 0.35m instead of 0.33m

Best regards and thanks in advance!
Andreas

Edited 14.2., 17.2., 23.2.24 (new serial numbers)

Last edited by pandreas68 on Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:27 pm; edited 8 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Never very common, three have passed through my hands in over 10 years, still have two of them. One is aus Jena, the other has the full Carl Zeiss branding. I posted photos years ago, not sure if I still have the photos.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Never very common, three have passed through my hands in over 10 years, still have two of them. One is aus Jena, the other has the full Carl Zeiss branding. I posted photos years ago, not sure if I still have the photos.


Hi, would be fine if you could look for the series numbers. They should be on the black ring on the back of the lens. Best regards, Andreas


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have one of the 1.4/50's marked AUS JENA
Serial No 2598
Not what you are after but they show folks where to look
Here are some pictures
Tom


#1


#2


Last edited by Oldhand on Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about 3081? Where would it fit ? MC Carl Zeiss Jena PANCOLAR electric 1.8/50


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks, Oldhand and kiddo!

Oldhand, yours is a 1.4 50, not a 1.8 50.

Kiddo, I've added yours into my first message at the appropriate position.

Best regards
Andreas


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kiddo, is yours an M42??? Most likely yes if it is an Electric, isn't it?
Sure that its serial number is 3081?

This would be very interesting... Because your serial number is within a Prakticar batch, but if it has been mounted as M42 then it may be an indication, that they may have changed some into M42. Could you provide a picture please?

Best regards, Andreas


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kiddo, no confirmation needed. Most likely at the short numbers they had running numbers per lense type; I first need to learn about this.

But yours is an M42, isn't it? So I throw the number out again.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Prakticar 1.8 50 Carl Zeiss Jena: Where have they gone? Reply with quote
pandreas68 wrote:
According to Mr. Kröger from zeissikonveb.de this lense type is the Prakticar from Zeiss with the highest number of manufactured copies; unfortunately this did not help in ebay.


Are you sure about Prakticar model specifically being so mass produced? Perhaps it is meant all variations starting with Meyer Oreston.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pandreas68 wrote:
Kiddo, no confirmation needed. Most likely at the short numbers they had running numbers per lense type; I first need to learn about this.

But yours is an M42, isn't it? So I throw the number out again.


You're right, sorry , I thought it was PB

Last edited by kiddo on Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've missed a production lot: 10959979-10962978; also here still no copy known...


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Apologies for the 1.4/50
Here is my 1.8/50.
Hopefully correct
Serial No: 10932835


#1


#2


#3


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: Prakticar 1.8 50 Carl Zeiss Jena: Where have they gone? Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
pandreas68 wrote:
According to Mr. Kröger from zeissikonveb.de this lense type is the Prakticar from Zeiss with the highest number of manufactured copies; unfortunately this did not help in ebay.


Are you sure about Prakticar model specifically being so mass produced? Perhaps it is meant all variations starting with Meyer Oreston.


The Meyer Oreston is a totally different lens from a different lineage, it was developed into the Prakticar 1.8/50, but the lens under discussion here is the Zeiss version of the Prakticar 1.8/5- which descends from the Pancolar.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have four of these lenses in two very different groups serial numbers:
1783 and 1850 and much higher:
10963438 and 11017114


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minolfan wrote:
I have four of these lenses in two very different groups serial numbers:
1783 and 1850 and much higher:
10963438 and 11017114


Thanks Minolatafan! Your 11017114 is it marked with "aus Jena"?

Best regards,
Andreas


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Apologies for the 1.4/50
Here is my 1.8/50.
Hopefully correct
Serial No: 10932835


Yes thanks, I added it at the series numbers!


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've got two Pentacon Electric 50's

Pentacon 50mm f1.8 6624973
Pentacon Electric 50mm f1.8 8929063

and three Pancolar.

Electric MC Pancolar 1.8/50 Carl Zeiss Jena DDR 50mm f1.8 10112639

MC Pancolar 1.8/50 Aus Jena DDR 50mm f1.8 10094762

Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 1.8/50 ( Zebra ) 50mm f1.8 8548914


PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
pandreas68 wrote:
Thanks Minolatafan! Your 11017114 is it marked with "aus Jena"?


Yes, it is indeed.

Gr., Aad


PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minolfan wrote:

Yes, it is indeed.
Gr., Aad


Thanks Aad!

To all: There are still production lots without found numbers yet, so indeed I am happy to obtain more serial numbers from copies. However please take into acount:

I am looking for Prakticar 1.8 50 lenses only having the Praktica bayonet mount, and additionally are marked "aus Jena" or "Carl Zeiss Jena" without additional "P" on the front ring. Their minimum distance is 35 cm.

Thanks in advance!

Andreas


PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.ebay.de/itm/194111426063
https://www.ebay.de/itm/285131442103
https://www.ebay.de/itm/364131578513
https://www.ebay.de/itm/285120375126

You are right Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50mm f1.8 are rare even on Ebay. I was not aware of this. I found 4 but only 1 might be your searched one.

The later Pentacon Prakticar is more common. For those interested in the lens to use it just buy a Pentacon one. It is the same lens but not manufactured by Zeiss. Instead the East German camera and lens fabrication conclomerate took over the production. So manufacturing propably moved from Saalfeld to Dresden. Some minor changes might be applied like some screws or aperture blade changes.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
räuber wrote:
It is the same lens but not manufactured by Zeiss.


That is not true.

E.g. here: https://zeissikonveb.de/start/objektive/normalobjektive/oreston.html

Quite far down you'll find the two Prakticar 1.8 50 compared.

The Pentacon comes from the Meyer Oreston, while the Zeiss from the Pancolar. Their optical formular is similar but not identical. So some differences are visible. E.g. both have barrel distortion but the Oreston based slightly more than the Pancolar based:

https://www.digicamclub.de/showthread.php?t=26271

Best regards
Andreas


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You are propably right, Andreas. I was in hurry and searching on Ebay on a phone I mixed up quite some things.

Only the first link ist for a CZJ Prakticar 50mm f1.8. But here are other findings from Ebay

https://www.ebay.de/itm/354567337727
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155406181293
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334654933815

I mixed up the CZJ Prakticar 50mm F1.8 with the F1.4 one. I wanted to say that people can buy the Pancolar 50mm F1.8 instead. You should check out the version before though. There are different versions and calculations of the Pancolar 50mm F1.8.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
räuber wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334654933815


Hi, this one is an example which is marked as Carl Zeiss Jena but with an additional P. Those are actually Pentacons and thus based on the Oreston. The other two I've already included.

I am actually looking here for series numbers of lenses in possession of the members which won't show up in ebay, but obviously there are not too many owners of Pancolar based Prakticar 50 1.8 lenses.

Best regards
Andreas


PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
pandreas68 wrote:
I am actually looking here for series numbers of lenses in possession of the members which won't show up in ebay, but obviously there are not too many owners of Pancolar based Prakticar 50 1.8 lenses.
AFAIK the PB-mount era was characterized by aiming for the cheapest possible solutions. So the wast majority of 50mm were Oreston-based with the 50/1.4 acting as the premium product. The Pancolar-based 50mm did not really fit to that production strategy.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
y wrote:
AFAIK the PB-mount era was characterized by aiming for the cheapest possible solutions. So the wast majority of 50mm were Oreston-based with the 50/1.4 acting as the premium product. The Pancolar-based 50mm did not really fit to that production strategy.


Cheapest possible solution: I beleave that this does not hold true. On the one hand side there was the mentioned 1.4 50, but also the 4/300, as well lenses also available for M42 like the Pancolar 1.8 80, both Flektogons, as well es the Sonnar 135. So the 1.4 50 was maybe because it has more modern properties and for some reasons they may have thought that a high quality 1.8 50 is superfluent then. Also the recalculation of the 2.8 29 into the 2.8 28 did not reduce the effort, but the main aim obviously was higher quality.

On the other side even if you take a so called "ratio lens", typically available the Pentagon 50mm lenses and the 2.8 28, then you may e.g. notice that they have no play, as many metal made lenses have. Also the plastics is of quite high quality, while reducing production costs. Comparing these lenses with Samyang lenses of the same time there are worlds between, and also if compared with Sigma and the upcoming Canon plastics lenses I'd regard the Pentacon "ratio lenses" as the higher quality. Companies like Nikon, Minolta and Olympus did not invent plastics yet; at that time they did not see the necessity yet which others already saw.

True however is, that the Praktica cameras in the West have mainly been sold by the low prices, often lower than for similar Japanese cameras. In the West many users bought them from catalog firms for being cheap and only some very few like me bought them for their quality.

For the low price buyers they needed to be sold by effenciently produced Pentacon lenses, while the Zeiss lenses mainly were bought in Eastern Germany, where only some very few official fotographers, e.g. working for Neues Deutschland, have been equipped with Nikon cameras. So yes the quality did not need anymore to compete with Nikon etc but only with Eastern products and in the West with the lower level Japanese cameras and for some few Western users as me offering the typical Zeiss Jena look and feel, which Zeiss West for some time missed, so that many regarded their lenses as too cold or technical while beeing much too expensive for pupils and students.

Quite funny, some lenses I bought as pupil and student, are now higher priced than the Minolta and Nikon lenses bought by class mates at the same time!-)

Best regards, Andreas

PS: Still looking for Carl Zeiss Jena Prakticar 1.8 50 serial numbers...
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