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kathala
Joined: 13 May 2022 Posts: 129
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 2:46 pm Post subject: Please comment: which lens has best bokeh character ever? |
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kathala wrote:
Hi everybody,
ignoring practicality, sharpness, focal length preferences, system preferences, political preference, rarity, or whether you'd ever be able to afford one:
Which lens has, in your experience, the most glorious, soul-warming bokeh character you've ever seen?
I don't mean "the MOST bokeh", as in a 3000 mm GOI, nor "the smoothest bokeh", as in a Sigma Art, which usually is just boring.
I mean the most character: enhancing, enchanting the image, without dulling the subject down, nor taking over the picture with their own optical faults.
Full Frame coverage would be highly desired; everything else is optional.
This is not intended as a purchase advice, but a pooling of our collective knowledge about great lenses. _________________ Photography Reference Tables:
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aJ5F8XM6t5AK4bydthcDoiwhsh5CUx3N
My Art and Books: ChristianSchnalzger.de
My Exploration of Panoramic Photographic Storytelling:
flickr.com/photos/hach_und_ueberhaupt/
The better you look, the more you see (B. E. Ellis) |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
For female portraits i prefer my CZJ 80/1.8, Enna 85/1.5 & 90/2.8, Leica R 90/2.0, Jupiter 9 85/2.0 and etc.
For flowers close-up i prefer Zeiss 55/1.4 & 60/2.8, Bokina or Trioplan 100/2.8 and etc.
Others like Biotar/Primoplan/Petval will be good for certain moody photos.
Most of the time I don't care much about bokeh as I just use whatever lens attached to my camera.
From Depth of Field and Bokeh by H. H. Nasse, pg 40 _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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kypfer
Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 516 Location: Jersey C.I.
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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kypfer wrote:
Personal best ever :- original M42 Meyer Optik Lydith 30mm f/3.5 on a full-frame camera.
So much character of the older lenses is lost when they're used on a crop-frame sensor … and modern lenses are simply over-corrected so the bokeh often becomes bland and universally similar!
The Industar-69 28mm f/2.8 works quite well on APS-C, being a half-frame lens to start with, but retaining the "old-school" Tessar-type configuration of 4 elements in three groups. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7785 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
I've spent the last hour looking through bokeh pictures, and it's impossible to pick one lens that I would put above another. But, it was an interesting excercise all the same.
Firstly I was surprised at how many of my 'good bokeh' pictures were taken with Macro lenses - Vivitar ( Komine ) 55 / 2.8, Takumar 50 / 4, Tamron 90B 90 / 2.5, SMC Pentax 50 / 4.
Secondly, I was also surpried at the amount of Fujinon kit lenses that cropped up. Everyone knows about the extraordinary bubble bokeh of the Fujinon 55 / 2.2, which can also produce some of softest and creamy bokeh ever. The 50 / 1.8 and 55 / 1.6 also have lovely creamy bokeh.
I wasn't surprised to see so many good pictures from my Olympus Auto S 50 / 1.4 or the Yashinon DX 50 / 1.4
No surprise to see the Tokina 17 / 3.5 featuring heavily, I love that lens just for its ability to smear a background to oblivion.
The big surprise for me was just how many great bokeh pictures I'm getting from the humble old Hanimex pre set ( Tokina ) 180 / 3.5, this lens is superb. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 761 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
You're going to get a lot of different answers.
My current personal favorite - and it's not going to be everyone's favorite - is the CZJ 8.5cm Triotar f/4, but only the pre-war version. After the war the Triotar 85 was recalculated, which made it better, but also lost the distinctive bokeh. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10543 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Auto-TAKUMAR 1:2.3 f=35mm
Nikkor-P Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm (Chrome-nose Sonnar https://www.destoutz.ch/lens_105mm_f2.5_215011.html ) _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 551 Location: Italy
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
My favorite ever: Leitz Summilux 50M, first and second version.
I do not longer own those lenses, but I'll never forget. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2926 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 6:14 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
I like the bokeh of the Auto Yashinon 5cm f/2. It makes backgrounds look like oil paintings.
DSC01934 by devoscasper, on Flickr
AutoYash5CMf2_5 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Auto Yashinon 5cm f/2 on Sony A7RII by devoscasper, on Flickr
I'm also a fan of 'boring' bokeh by the way. It directs the attention to the subject, which can be a good think IMO. Often it has nothing to do with maximum aperture however: there are very fast lenses with distracting bokeh. Some of my favorites with boring bokeh are the Tokina AT-X 90mm f/2.5 and Minolta MC (5/5) or MD 100mm f/2.5. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2926 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 8:17 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
A few images of the Bokina where I do like boring bokeh:
_DSC0830 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Tokina9025macro131 by devoscasper, on Flickr
BokinaKlaproos by devoscasper, on Flickr |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1121
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:00 am Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
Best bokeh and character don't go well together always, for portraits I've taken some nice shots with the Colorplan. Never did a side by side comparison to other lenses same focal length, so i don't know exactly how would multiple lenses do in the same circumstances.
Best bokeh (by many users) would be creamy smooth painted background, character I understand it's not related only to these bokeh characteristics.
For example, komura 100mm 1.8 it's pretty unique on its class , is it the best for me ? No |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1270 Location: Kent, UK
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Please comment: which lens has best bokeh character ever |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
kathala wrote: |
Hi everybody,
ignoring practicality, sharpness, focal length preferences, system preferences, political preference, rarity, or whether you'd ever be able to afford one:
Which lens has, in your experience, the most glorious, soul-warming bokeh character you've ever seen?
... |
If I'm allowed to be a little facetious: my lenses. I mean the ones in my eyeballs .
Since I am very myopic, it is easy for me to study my eye's bokeh by simply taking of my glasses. Your eyes have a tendency to focus automatically on what you are looking at directly, so for people with healthy eyesight it is very difficult to study the bokeh of their own eyes properly (unless a few bottles of wine are within easy reach). I just take off my glasses and everything further than 20cm away turns into a bokeh-enhanced glorious impressionistic world.
I won't provide any sample images for fairly obvious reasons... _________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1554 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Please comment: which lens has best bokeh character ever |
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blotafton wrote:
Here are some that comes to mind I can't choose one.
Biotar 75mm f1.5
Domiron 50mm f2
Oreston 50mm f1.8
Trioplan 50mm and 100mm
Primoplan 58mm 1.9
Pancolar 55mm 1.4
Pancolar 50mm 1.8
Fujinon 55mm f1.6 (m42 arguably has more character than than X mount)
Fujinon 55mm f2.2
W.Nikkor 3.5cm f1.8
Canon Dream Lens
Canon 35mm f1.5 ltm
Petri Orikkor 50mm f2 m42
Yashinon 5cm f2, nicely demonstrated already.
Leonon 5cm f2
Vivitar S1 35-85mm 2.8
Wollensak Oscillo-Anastigmat 75mm f1.9
Xenon 50mm f1.9
Heligon 50mm 1.9
Takumar 35mm f2.3
XR Rikenon 50mm f2 |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Please comment: which lens has best bokeh character ever |
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calvin83 wrote:
blotafton wrote: |
Canon 35mm f1.5 ltm
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I managed to grab one of this before the price explosion.
On my test on a Leica camera, it has some character I can't found elsewhere. Maybe I will write a review after I finish my current project on the other lens.
_________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022 Posts: 444
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
Agfa M.3525 6/3 (most likely a prototype or custom-made lens around 50 mm f/2.8 ) is probably the most versatile and interesting lens I've seen so far in terms of OOF rendering and bokeh style. That's not very helpful in terms of purchasing advice, but because my personal preferences tend to stray significantly from the most common opinions a lot of the time, I guess it wouldn't be anything special to most people anyway.
I'm still trying to gather what I was able to find out about this one (and similar Agfa prototype and industrial lenses) here btw:
https://deltalenses.com/index.php/2022/08/05/agfa-gevaert-industrial/
so if you know anything else, please let me know!
Because this lens is a simple triplet, it's able to create some bubbles wide open:
Dan Delight by simple.joy, on Flickr
Light is key by simple.joy, on Flickr
It can even look somewhat similar in character to a Trioplan:
Winter is over... white everywhere! by simple.joy, on Flickr
Spring... ting... ting! by simple.joy, on Flickr
In direct/harsh light it can create some interesting results for people who like to experiment:
Open house in hell by simple.joy, on Flickr
Most of the time, I enjoy it for the incredible smoothness though:
Shot point-blank by simple.joy, on Flickr
Feel the pain... and brush it off! by simple.joy, on Flickr
Rad color! by simple.joy, on Flickr _________________ ---
Manual lens enthusiast
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simple_joy/ |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1554 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Please comment: which lens has best bokeh character ever |
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blotafton wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
blotafton wrote: |
Canon 35mm f1.5 ltm
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I managed to grab one of this before the price explosion.
On my test on a Leica camera, it has some character I can't found elsewhere. Maybe I will write a review after I finish my current project on the other lens.
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I'm so jealous!
Yes please make a review there are not many photos or talk about it online.
I can only hope Light Lens Lab makes a replica. |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Hmmm, what's the best-tasting vegetable?
Some of mine have been mentioned already. Meyer is a favorite brand of mine for bokeh, whether smooth or characterful. I do like smooth bokeh when it's appropriate and I do love lenses that create unique and beautiful bokeh. In those cases, I consider the bokeh a large part of the image, so not distracting from the subject in focus.
There are many, but my favorites are (in no particular order):
- Meyer Primoplan 1.9/58
- Leotax Leonon 2/50
- Okaya Optic Highkor 1.8/40 or 1.9/40
- Meyer Kinon Superior 1.8/50
- Helios 40 1.5/85
- Meyer Trioplan 2.8/100
- Helios 44 2/58
There are many others with less dramatic effect. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
An impossible question to answer as it is purely subjective.... _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2495
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
An impossible question to answer as it is purely subjective.... |
That would be true if the Auto-Takumar 35mm 1:2.3 didn't exist _________________ pentaxian |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1121
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
Most have chosen focal length from 50 to 85/90mm (there are some exceptions lydith and 105 Nikkor);
Is it true that most agree best bokeh it comes from this range Focal length? |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I would say longer, but I like smooth bokeh _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1121
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I would say longer, but I like smooth bokeh |
I think we most agree on this, that longer focal better separation, but... Depends on the subject (longer focal requieres higher speed) and distance in front and back of the subject , so shorter FL are more easy to use. |
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Alun Thomas
Joined: 20 Aug 2018 Posts: 632 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Alun Thomas wrote:
kiddo wrote: |
Most have chosen focal length from 50 to 85/90mm (there are some exceptions lydith and 105 Nikkor);
Is it true that most agree best bokeh it comes from this range Focal length? |
The best separation comes from a wider aperture, of course this is easier accomplished with a longer focal length. I agree with those who say that most lenses are fairly similar, the framing and conditions is what makes more difference. There are some lens with very distinctive looks, they are mostly well known, and some were made in large numbers. |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022 Posts: 444
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:35 am Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
Hmmm, what's the best-tasting vegetable?
Some of mine have been mentioned already. Meyer is a favorite brand of mine for bokeh, whether smooth or characterful. I do like smooth bokeh when it's appropriate and I do love lenses that create unique and beautiful bokeh. In those cases, I consider the bokeh a large part of the image, so not distracting from the subject in focus.
There are many, but my favorites are (in no particular order):
- Meyer Primoplan 1.9/58
- Leotax Leonon 2/50
- Okaya Optic Highkor 1.8/40 or 1.9/40
- Meyer Kinon Superior 1.8/50
- Helios 40 1.5/85
- Meyer Trioplan 2.8/100
- Helios 44 2/58
There are many others with less dramatic effect. |
There are some great examples here! The Primplan is indeed wonderful in a lot of cirumstances:
Gotta hand it to the rain: it feels amazing! by simple.joy, on Flickr
Light … outside and inside by simple.joy, on Flickr
Rain: embrace with grace by simple.joy, on Flickr
And it can also be use for some bokeh experiments:
Small budget Christmas tree by simple.joy, on Flickr
I like the Kinon Superior as well, but I think if I think it's not as versatile. Same goes for the Leonon, which I don't have but would absolutely love to try.
I found the images with it to be somewhat similar to the Meyer Domiron (which I love) - lots and lots of character, and very interesting but often not in the way I would describe as "soul warming".
We built this city on bokeh‘n roll! by simple.joy, on Flickr
I brought gifts by simple.joy, on Flickr
You gotta stop it (down)... I'm drowning here! by simple.joy, on Flickr _________________ ---
Manual lens enthusiast
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simple_joy/ |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022 Posts: 444
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:37 am Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
I absolutely love that shot and look by the way - just wonderful! _________________ ---
Manual lens enthusiast
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simple_joy/ |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2926 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:47 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
simple.joy wrote: |
I absolutely love that shot and look by the way - just wonderful! |
Thanks. It was actualy a test shot, but it shows the character of the lens. |
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