Options for macro . . .

[j.lukow]

Several zoom lens I have are marked Telephoto Macros, but still I'm not totally happy with them, when I try for an extreme closeup.

When I first arrived I asked abot Achromatic lenses - screw on close up - and have note time and time again how tricky they are for DOF.

I've seen mention in other posts about extension tubes, so a couple questions . . .
1- Are they better for dealing with DOF?
2- Their purpose is also to shorten the focussing distance Y/N?
3- Do they work with any focal length?

I know there are also reversal rings as well.
Thanks in advance,
Jim
_________________
EMPLOYMENT: That which funds photography and woodworking.j.lukow
Jim's Kit:
Minolta Kit: Minolta X70 & Autowinder G, Minolta SRT200
LENSES:Minolta - 45mm & 50mm F1:2, PF 58mm F1:1.4,
Tamron 28mm f1:2.5, Tamron SP 35-80mm f1:2.8/3.8 & CF TeleMacro zoom 80-210 f1:3.8,
Vivitar f3.0~4.5 35-200mm macro focusing zoom, f 2.8 28mm CF Wide angle, 2x macro focus teleconverter,
Sigma F4 25-250, f 2.8~4 35-70mm zoom master,
Tokina SD f4-5.6 70-210 zoom, f4.5 80-200 "Ultra" zoom,
AutoImage 135mm F1:2.8, Spiratone 400mm f1:6.3, Magicon f3.5-4.8 35-70mm macro zoom,Accura MD mount Macro bellows
Start of M42 Kit:Praktica PLC2,Yashica TL Electro X
LENSES:Meyer Goerlitz Oreston 50mm f1:1.8 ,
Auto Yashinon DX 1:1.7 50mm,Steinheil Munchen Culminar 135mm f4.5, Adaptall-2 M42 adapter
Zeiss . . .
Zeiss Contaflex 126 system
Zeiss Contaflex Super

Other gear - Gossen Luna-Pro

[padiej]

Hallo Jim!

I have this extention rings, and this rings are working with all focus lengths, but 50mm is standard, I know.

Another method is using a lens reverse, with an adapter (or a "balgengerät").

A good macro is the pentax m 100/4.

regards Peter
_________________
Cam: Pentax K200d, EOS 5D, 1D
Lenses on
www.flickr.com/photos/padiej/

[poilu]

Hi Jim,

1) No
2) Yes
3) Yes

What do you mean by extreme closeup ?
What do you want to shot ?

[maddog10]

Jim,

Extension tubes will allow you to close focus and will work with any lens that attach's to them. You will have shallow DOF and sometimes this is VERY shallow indeed.

I have used them with plenty of lenses, including Micro-Nikkor lenses with varying results.

_________________
Michael Hill

DSLR: Nikon - D3, D80, D40 Canon- 5D
Film: Nikon - F5, F2, F, EM, FG, FE, Nikkorex Contax - G2 Mamiya - M645 Olympus - OM1 Praktika - LTL PLC3 Pentax - Spotmatic SP Yashica Electro 35 GSN Zenit - B
Nikon Mount Lens: Nikkor - 2.8/20 2.8/24 2/28 2.8/28 3.5/28 2/35 2.8/35 1.4/50 1.8/50 2/50 1.8/85 2/85 2.5/105 2.8/135 3.5/135 2.8/180 4/200 4.5/300 Micro 2.8/55 Micro 4/200 Zoom 3.5/36-72 3.5/43-86 4/70-210 Sigma - Zoom 2.8-4/35-70 Soligor - 3.5-4.5/28-80 4.5/80-200 5.6/95-310 Tamron - SP 2.8-3.8/35-80 SP 3.5/70-210 3.8-4/80-210 Vivitar - 3.8/19 2.8/28 (Series 1) 3.5-4.5/19-35 (Kiron) 3.5/70-210 Zenitar - 2.8/16
Contax Mount Lens: Carl Zeiss - Biogon 2.8/21 Biogon 2.8/28 Planar 2/45 Sonnar 2.8/90 Yashica - 4.5/70-210
M42 Screw Mount Lens: CZJ - Flek 2.8/20 Flek 2.4/35 Tessar 2.8/50 3.5/135 Focal - 2.8/28 Helios - 44-2 2/58 44M 2/58 44M-4 2/58 40 1.5/85 Industar - 50-2 3.5/50 Jupiter - 37A 3.5/135 Meyer Optik Gorlitz - Domiplan 2.8/50 MIR - 24M 2/35 1B 2.8/37 Pentacon - 2.8/29 1.8/50 2.8/135 Pentax - SMC 3.5/135 SMC 4/200 SMC 5.6/400 Rexatar - 6.3/400 Rokinon - 3.5-4.5/35-135 Sears - 2.8/28 2.8/135 4.5/90-230 Soligor - 2.8/105 3.5-4.5/28-80

[LucisPictor]

An excellent macro lens is the Volna-9 2.8/50 which is much cheaper than most of the other "real" macro lenses and at least as good.

Esp. with macro shots AF is not important, so it makes hardly any sense to invest in the more expensive AF solutions.

The Volna-9 comes in M42, so you can get additional extension rings for almost no money on *bay, just in case you want to get really close.
_________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and those who don’t.
"KAPCTEH" | "Karusutenu" | "Carsten" | T-shirt?
Cams in use: EOS 40D, EOS 350D, EOS 50e, EOS 500, Spotmatic SPII, EXA I & 1c, Zenit EM; Oly 35RC,Minolta Hi-Matic E & F, Ricoh 500RF, Yashica Electro 35 GS, FED-3b and some others...
Lenses in use: Asahi Pentax: 2.8/28;3.5/35;1.4/50;1.7/50;2.8/105;3.5/135;28-80 | Canon (AF):1.8/50;17-85;75-300 | Former GDR: CZJ Flek 4/20; Pentacon 3.5/30; Pentaflex 1.8/50; CZJ 2.8/50; CZJ 4/135; Pentacon 4/200 | Fujinon: 43-75 on sale! | Hanimex: 3.5/23 on sale!; 4/100;80-200 | Hoya: 25-42;80-205 | Leica: Elmarit-R 2.8/35; Summicron 2.0/50 | Mamiya: 1.8/55 | Minolta: 1.7/50 | Nikkor: 2.8/24;2/35;2/50;1.2/55;1.8/85;3.5/135 | West German: Zeiss 2.8/50; Ludwig 2.9/50; Meyer 2.8/100; Will 4.5/105;Schneider 3.5/135;Enna 3.5/135; Zeiss 4/135;Isco 4/135; Enna 4.5/240 | Olympus: 3.5/28;1.4/50;3.5/135 | Rikenon: 1.7/50 on sale!;35-70 | Rollei/Voigtländer: 1.4/55;1.8/50 | Russian: Peleng3.5/8; Zenitar2.8/16; MIR2.8/37; Volna2.8/50; Industar2.8/50; Industar3.5/50; Industar3.5/5cm; Helios2/50; Helios2/58; MIR38 3.5/65; Volna2.8/80; Jupiter2/85; Kaleinar2.8/100;Tair2.8/133; Jupiter3.5/135; Jupiter4/135;Telear3.5/200;Jupiter4/200; Tair4.5/300;RF: Jupiter2.8/35;Industar2.8/53 | Sigma: 28-85;28-105(AF);17-70(AF) | Soligor: 28-105;35-200;70-220 | Tamron: 2.5/24;2.5/135;60-300;70-210 | Tokina: 28-105;80-200;12-24(AF);70-210(AF) | Vivitar: 3.5/17;2/24 on sale!;2/28;2.5/28;2.8/28 | Yashica: 2/5cm | Other Japanese: Cosina3.8/20; Albinar2.8/28; Porst1.8/35; Beroflex 8/500; Spiratone28-200; Maginon70-210
Green are the lenses I shoot the most.
More? http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65

[Abbazz]

[patrickh]

Macro can be achieved in several ways:

1) Specially designed lenses - look for those that give 1:1 without additional devices.
2) Extension tubes - you can mount any focal length lens on them and achieve macro
3) Bellows - as above but variable length and sometimes tilt and shift too.
4) Reversed lens - requires purpose built adapter, but can produce stunning results

Macro can only be done with manual focus, despite what the producers say, so go for MF lenses. I have not tried it personally, but I have seen results from enlarging lenses on extension rings or bellows that are spectacular, and enlarging lenses are going very cheaply now (most have M42 threads). The Volna-9 is an excellent way to try your hand without investing too much. A good macro lens can command significant dollars.


patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D70 Nikon D200 Canon 40D
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, Nikkor 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 3004.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Kiron 28/2 Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Flektogon 35/2.4, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Arsat 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro,Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Jupiter 135/4, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8, 35/2.8
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8

[j.lukow]

Thanks for the influx of advice, I'll try to help focus things a bit . . .

@poilu
By extreme closeup, I mean getting a shot of a bumblebee cramming its body down a Wiegela bloom and the shot filling my camera's viewfinder.
I've been loving the detail and structure of the plants in the garden - occasionally you can catch a small ghost-like spider prowling between the petals.

@patrickh
You mention about the adapters that I think are termed reversing rings, are you speaking from your own experience?

@ everyone . . .
AF/digital aren't issues, as I'm a film shooting MF 35mm camera guy
The biggest hassle I run into is the very shallow DOF I get while using the closeup lens. If a bloom is a 4 cm diameter "sphere"/hemisphere then parts will be blurred.
_________________
EMPLOYMENT: That which funds photography and woodworking.j.lukow
Jim's Kit:
Minolta Kit: Minolta X70 & Autowinder G, Minolta SRT200
LENSES:Minolta - 45mm & 50mm F1:2, PF 58mm F1:1.4,
Tamron 28mm f1:2.5, Tamron SP 35-80mm f1:2.8/3.8 & CF TeleMacro zoom 80-210 f1:3.8,
Vivitar f3.0~4.5 35-200mm macro focusing zoom, f 2.8 28mm CF Wide angle, 2x macro focus teleconverter,
Sigma F4 25-250, f 2.8~4 35-70mm zoom master,
Tokina SD f4-5.6 70-210 zoom, f4.5 80-200 "Ultra" zoom,
AutoImage 135mm F1:2.8, Spiratone 400mm f1:6.3, Magicon f3.5-4.8 35-70mm macro zoom,Accura MD mount Macro bellows
Start of M42 Kit:Praktica PLC2,Yashica TL Electro X
LENSES:Meyer Goerlitz Oreston 50mm f1:1.8 ,
Auto Yashinon DX 1:1.7 50mm,Steinheil Munchen Culminar 135mm f4.5, Adaptall-2 M42 adapter
Zeiss . . .
Zeiss Contaflex 126 system
Zeiss Contaflex Super

Other gear - Gossen Luna-Pro

[A G Photography]

The only solution I know about the DOF problem is shooting with a tilt lens, or a tilting bellow (Nikon made one, the PB6 maybe, not sure about the code), or a large format camera.
_________________
Alessandro

My Photography Website
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------

DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8

[patrickh]

Alessandro is correct about tilting. I also forgot to mention the addon lenses that you originally mentioned. The Canon is often mentioned with respect. I have no personal experience of reversing lenses - I just use bellows, rings and macro lenses.
DOF is mainly a physical properties issue and one of the constant balancing acts is speed vs aperture only in macro it is critical. So - lighting is very important. So is a tripod. Also for this reason you will find most macro lenses are slow - you simply cannot use anything wider than 5.6 as a rule of thumb (and yes I know everyone has great shots at 2..


patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D70 Nikon D200 Canon 40D
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, Nikkor 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 3004.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Kiron 28/2 Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Flektogon 35/2.4, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Arsat 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro,Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Jupiter 135/4, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8, 35/2.8
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8

[dickb]

[j.lukow]

This is what I'm running into with just a (Minolta XG70) with Tamron CF TeleMacro zoom 80-210 f1:3.8 . . . For focus I need to work on my DOF
These are anemones - aka Grecian Windflowers . . .


Jim
_________________
EMPLOYMENT: That which funds photography and woodworking.j.lukow
Jim's Kit:
Minolta Kit: Minolta X70 & Autowinder G, Minolta SRT200
LENSES:Minolta - 45mm & 50mm F1:2, PF 58mm F1:1.4,
Tamron 28mm f1:2.5, Tamron SP 35-80mm f1:2.8/3.8 & CF TeleMacro zoom 80-210 f1:3.8,
Vivitar f3.0~4.5 35-200mm macro focusing zoom, f 2.8 28mm CF Wide angle, 2x macro focus teleconverter,
Sigma F4 25-250, f 2.8~4 35-70mm zoom master,
Tokina SD f4-5.6 70-210 zoom, f4.5 80-200 "Ultra" zoom,
AutoImage 135mm F1:2.8, Spiratone 400mm f1:6.3, Magicon f3.5-4.8 35-70mm macro zoom,Accura MD mount Macro bellows
Start of M42 Kit:Praktica PLC2,Yashica TL Electro X
LENSES:Meyer Goerlitz Oreston 50mm f1:1.8 ,
Auto Yashinon DX 1:1.7 50mm,Steinheil Munchen Culminar 135mm f4.5, Adaptall-2 M42 adapter
Zeiss . . .
Zeiss Contaflex 126 system
Zeiss Contaflex Super

Other gear - Gossen Luna-Pro

[zewrak]

How about a lensbaby on the bellows for tilting?
_________________
My Flickr - Takumar.org
PENTAX K10D, Spotmatic
Asahi Auto Takumar 85/1.8
Asahi Takumar 105/2.8 135/3.5
Asahi Super Takumar 20/4.5 50/1.4 55/1.8 85/1.9 105/2.8 135/3.5 150/4 200/4
Asahi S-M-C Takumar 35/3.5 300/4
Asahi S-M-C Macro-Takumar 50/4,100/4

[A G Photography]

[zewrak]