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New old stock Helios 44M-7 lenses
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject: New old stock Helios 44M-7 lenses Reply with quote

Hi
There are a lot of New Helios lenses on ebay suddenly and I want to try a 8 blade Helios 44M-7 but I get a feeling that those are fake,looks like Helos 44Ms with new name plates.....they are in boxes and the front caps is the same as the ones on the newer 44 5/6/7.
There are even ones with T*.Those aren't made by the same factory that made the usual 5/6/7 one's.
What do you think about this?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are fake.
44M7 has only 6 blades.
Only 44M have 8 blades.
Helios-44M7 do NOT have switch A/M, only 44M has.

Serial number can be a good element to look at since from 44M4, all the bodies look quite similar (exepted some 44M5 or 6 with different focus ring). 44M7 was made from 1991 to 1993 if I remember right.

I can't find the one with T*, it is certainly quite funny to look at.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a Helios has T* it's fake, the FSU equivalent is the capital letter Pi (Π).


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then it is like I thought....they have worked hard this time boxes and all...
This one is particularly nice..😀

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262724690395?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must say, that is a nice item, even though it is a fake! But since it is "just" a normal Helios lens i do not see a reason to buy it.

Is there no such thing as copyright for the red T* ??


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my god. Trying to fake lenses which usually go for $30 or so... World is a sad place.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This T* is funny.
Yes, faking a lens to get 20$ more than if they sold it as 44M... Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen Helios 44m4 from KMZ that are as sharp as the couple of 44m7 I have own.But the resolution numbers speaks for the 44m7😀


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
This T* is funny.
Yes, faking a lens to get 20$ more than if they sold it as 44M... Rolling Eyes


That may say something about the circumstances these people live in.

Stephan


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrueLoveOne wrote:
Must say, that is a nice item, even though it is a fake! But since it is "just" a normal Helios lens i do not see a reason to buy it.

Is there no such thing as copyright for the red T* ??

Not copyright, but T* it is a trademark, same with Biotar, they should all be reported to Zeiss so they can protect their reputation.

This is getting ridiculous.... it's getting harder to find unmolested lenses.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
TrueLoveOne wrote:
Must say, that is a nice item, even though it is a fake! But since it is "just" a normal Helios lens i do not see a reason to buy it.

Is there no such thing as copyright for the red T* ??

Not copyright, but T* it is a trademark, same with Biotar, they should all be reported to Zeiss so they can protect their reputation.

This is getting ridiculous.... it's getting harder to find unmolested lenses.


In fact, Biotar-Krasnogorskiy (not Krasnogorsk) was the first version of Helios-44, but written BTK. Only few exemplars were released in 1951... Later appeared the Helios-44 (1958). So it's not totally invented name, I guess they wanted to create confusion with thoses names in order to give impression that it's not a fake.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of the earliest Helios 44's, its biggest difference is the red Π, the direction the aperture ring turns, and stopping down to f22.
I've not seen any labeled Biotar.
Confusion = $$$


PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I have one of the earliest Helios 44's, its biggest difference is the red Π, the direction the aperture ring turns, and stopping down to f22.
I've not seen any labeled Biotar.
Confusion = $$$

Also don't forget the different preset system on thoses early 44's.
The BTK is attested by zenitcamera.com (which use official docs) sources.
Here is a photo from photohistory.ru


PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, it's always fun to see such a wonderfully tacky fake Smile First off, it is based on the Helios-44M lens (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3969119). The giveaway is the A/M switch that was last used on that particular model.

The lens is actually single-coated (T*, my ass), and does indeed have 8 aperture blades. All subsequent models only had 6 blades.

The real "БТК" lens, which stands for "BioTar Krasnogorskiy", was already posted here. It's a totally different and very old model.

It's funny that the seller used Latin characters on the lens - this is of course to fool the Western buyer. The box is most probably printed in China (but could be a Russian knock-off as well), and does not resemble any real boxes used by KM3.

Verdict: a tacky fake built for Western barbarians Smile


PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aoleg wrote:
The box is most probably printed in China (but could be a Russian knock-off as well), and does not resemble any real boxes used by KM3.


Also the box has a few misspellings ( "thred" instead of "thread", "ofattachment" instead of "of attachment" ) and text printed on the box bending lines.
Even so there are some buyers for this lens and it seems the feedback is positive ...


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, version 44M-7 is rarely found even in Russia. I bought a copy for about USD 20 (if converted at current exchange rate) in mint condition with the camera.
In Russia, the price of different versions are practically identical. The reason is that here everyone knows - in the case of Helios lenses the quality is not determined by the numbers on the body Smile It can be very bad genuine 44M-7, and very good 44M-5. It can be very good 44M-7 and very bad 44M-5, 44M-6, and so on. It is a matter of luck. So I always advise to check Helios lenses before purchase (regardless of version), or buy only from familiar.
And another common misconception. Many people think that first produced 44M-5, then 44M-6, then 44M-7. This is absolutely not true, it's not chronological numbering. All these versions were released simultaneously. The lenses were tested, and, depending on whether the resolving power was at each particular instance, it is assigned an index of 5, 6 or 7. Thus, version 44M-7 - the best on the lines per mm parameter. Theoretically Smile In practice, it depends on many other factors. For example, how much was drunk worker who made the lens. My copy 44M-7 much better the original German Biotar. But I have met and utterly horrible copies of 44M-7 (not fakes!).
44M-7 with 8 blades - it is 100% fake. But not the fact that it is a bad lens, if you're lucky, it may be better than the genuine 44M-7.
44M-7 has ONLY six blades and NOT have switch A/M. 44M-7 was produced in only one plant (Jupiter in the city of Valdai) - logo in the form of arrow with the circle. The first two digits of the serial number, usually 91, 92, 93 (years of release). Front ring with lens name may be of metal or plastic (plastic - not a sign of a fake, it is a normal feature of the later copies, attempt to reduce the cost of production). Weight - 270 grams (early Helios, such as 44-2, have less weight).
In addition, there are two different lenses with similar names - Helios-44M-7 and Helios-44-7 (rare lens for Zenit-7 camera only). Do not confuse them.
Greetings from Russia.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and quite obviously not really unused. Just see the screws and screw mount. I don't mind pimping but seller should just state the facts.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aoleg wrote:
The box is most probably printed in China (but could be a Russian knock-off as well), and does not resemble any real boxes used by KM3.


44M-7 has never been produced in the factory KMZ. This version is done only at the Jupiter factory in the city of Valdai.
Original box for these Helios looked very, very modest:



I do not think that the box is made in China. Most likely, the fraudster did this at home by using a color printer.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And one small addition.
Look at this photo.
Left - Helios 44M-4 (1982, KMZ), right - Helios 44M-7 (1995 - one of the most recent, Jupiter-Valdai).
Old lens has a copper insert in the helicoid, new lens thread aluminum.
Old lens - metal front ring, new lens - plastic ring.
The old lens good blackening inside, the new lens inside shine.
The only thing the new version is much better than the old - MC coating.



PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Helios 44M-7 Real or Fake? Reply with quote

I just acquired a 44M-7 on ebay. Several indications that it could be a "7" include
52mm filter ring, 6 blade aperture, serial number starting with 93. The one contraindicator is weight - it weighs only 236 gms not 270 that the Camerapedia site says a 7 should weigh. This would make it a 4 Can anyone help me identify this animal?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: Helios 44M-7 Real or Fake? Reply with quote

Beaverbush wrote:
I just acquired a 44M-7 on ebay. Several indications that it could be a "7" include
52mm filter ring, 6 blade aperture, serial number starting with 93. The one contraindicator is weight - it weighs only 236 gms not 270 that the Camerapedia site says a 7 should weigh. This would make it a 4 Can anyone help me identify this animal?


Can you show a photo of this lens?
The first "93" indicate that this is a late lens, 1993 release.
With a high degree of probability, this lens should have a plastic ring with a marking. However, sometimes in the later versions there is also a metal ring with a thread (а characteristic feature is two little holes). However, regardless of the material of the ring, weight should be about 270 grams.
All other "relatives" are also heavy - from 270 to 300 grams:
Version 44M has an A/M switch.
A very rare 44M-4 version of the KMZ plant also has an A/M switch. This lens was released by a very small batch.
Version 44M-4 produced by the Valdai plant does not have an A/M switch.
Lighter version with 6-blade diaphragms -
44K-4 (with Pentax mount) - 258 grams.

And, if possible, tell me the name of the Ebay seller.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:07 am    Post subject: Re: Helios 44M-7 Real or Fake? Reply with quote

D. P. wrote:
Beaverbush wrote:
I just acquired a 44M-7 on ebay. Several indications that it could be a "7" include
52mm filter ring, 6 blade aperture, serial number starting with 93. The one contraindicator is weight - it weighs only 236 gms not 270 that the Camerapedia site says a 7 should weigh. This would make it a 4 Can anyone help me identify this animal?


Can you show a photo of this lens?
The first "93" indicate that this is a late lens, 1993 release.
With a high degree of probability, this lens should have a plastic ring with a marking. However, sometimes in the later versions there is also a metal ring with a thread (а characteristic feature is two little holes). However, regardless of the material of the ring, weight should be about 270 grams.
All other "relatives" are also heavy - from 270 to 300 grams:
Version 44M has an A/M switch.
A very rare 44M-4 version of the KMZ plant also has an A/M switch. This lens was released by a very small batch.
Version 44M-4 produced by the Valdai plant does not have an A/M switch.
Lighter version with 6-blade diaphragms -
44K-4 (with Pentax mount) - 258 grams.

And, if possible, tell me the name of the Ebay seller.


Maybe this one:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HELIOS-44m-4-F-2-58mm-m42-SLR-LENS-MINT-WITH-SWITCH-ON-OFF-LEVER-UNUSUAL-RARE-/302261729428?hash=item466033f894:g:g9gAAOSwdGFY1Fqk


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Last edited by Oldhand on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Helios 44M-7 Real or Fake? Reply with quote

Yes, that's it. Intermediate model between the 44M and the classic 44M-4 without A/M switch. 6 blades, no "MC" (there is a single-layer coating) and a strange shape of the switch. It is made in Krasnogorsk. Then the optical design was slightly modified to take into account the use of a multilayer coating. The author of the updated version was P.A. Lapin. Then the production was moved from Krasnogorsk to Valdai, to the plant "Jupiter" - that's how 44M-5, -6 and -7 appeared.
According to optical characteristics, this rare version 44M-4 is close to Helios 44-3 and 44M-4 MC. This lens may be of interest to collectors, but, unfortunately, optically this is a fairly mediocre lens.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend everyone to read this article - http://ussrlens.com/thinking-out-loud/history-helios-44
(You can use google translator)


PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Helios 44M-7? Reply with quote

To answer D.P's question, here are pictures of the lens. It has 6 bladed aperture, 52mm filter ring, straight M42 mount, no auto/manual switch, two holes on the face plate. It weighs 236 grams which is not on anyone's scale. The eBay seller is Jovanie de la Cruz, screen name dalvertu. New pictures replace earlier insertion.


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