Need advice on lens lubrication grease.

nureality · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 12

A couple questions. This is for my restoration project of my Biotar T 2/58 which has a very stiff focus ring.

Any really good brands to look for?

I understand a synthetic grease is preferable, any particular viscosities or some other variables to look for?

Any places online reputable in getting said grease.

-Alan

piticu · Joined: 04 Aug 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Romania

nureality · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 12

can anyone tell me which grease would be the best for the task at hand.

I'm going to dismantle my CZJ Biotar T 2/58 (circa 1952-1955) because the focus ring is very stiff and anything this old needs a little TLC.

Is helical grease what I need for this task? Or should I be looking for a different product? I want to use what the pro's would use. I don't mind spending for the product, but I need clarification on which will serve best.

I need to know which grease to get for the task. Upon checking the Micro-Tools website I found 4 options.

1) Nye Lubricant, Grease, Helical - 50 Gram Tube
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=744

2) Grease, Helical #10 (Light) 8ml
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=HG-10

3) Grease, Helical #30 (Medium) 8ml
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=HG-30

4) Helical Grease #3000 Super Heavy 15ml
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=HG-3000

Can anyone tell me the difference between these 4 options? What is meant by the weights listed (#10, #30, #3000) and which would best serve my lens (and why)?

Is Helical Grease what I need to look for? I'm looking to make the movement of the focus ring (and I suppose the helicoid) smooth as it should be. Could my problem lie elsewhere? I know its impossible to tell before I open it, but I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I open it. So, I need help with my shopping list I guess is what I'm saying.

Will I need more than 1 type of grease for the project? If so, which 2? which 3?

I'm also trying to set myself up with a proper maintenance kit for this task, I've already got a spanner wrench set (dunno how good, we will see), lens filter ring vise, and various tweezers (came as a set off ebay).

Micro-Tools has so many funky little things to buy I'm not sure where best to spend the dough. Lens Sucker seems like a smart item
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=LS, but the Lens Suction Cup 30mm
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=91510 might be better - I don't know and hence am asking for advice.
Can anyone explain what the Lens Ring Tool Set is for?
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=LRSET

And what are Flexi Clamps for?

Lastly, I intend to refinish the exteriour with a Dremel, or even put my polishing wheel thru its paces. Any suggestions on polish to use to get a museum finish that will not in anyway affect lens operation. I want this little gem to be a showstopper whenever she comes out of the bag (sorry, I have some vanity issues).

-Alan

Any help would be appreciated.

SkedAddled · Expire: 2021-08-12

I can't speak as a professional, by any means.
But I might suggest that white lithium grease will provide
many properties for such a lens:

1. Heat resistance
2. Viscosity to stay where applied
3. Relatively inexpensive
4. Common; easy to obtain
5. Thick enough to apply in small amounts easily

Whether or not lithium grease is suitable for applications as lens
repair/refurbishment, I do not know. I will therefore defer to others
here for any reasons why you should or should not use such grease.

I'm quite interested in learning about it, too.

Sevo · Expire: 2012-12-03

The Nye is my "stay in place" grease for almost everything - except helicals, where it might be fine for new, big zooms, but is almost always way too light for old primes.

On helicals I like Shimano "green" gearing grease - which behaves like the "heavy" grease missing between the medium and super heavy variants offered by Micro tools, and is generally excellent stuff (brass and plastics safe, free from creep, stays put forever even in roughest conditions and has a very wide temperture range). If there is lots of play between the helicals, super heavy may sometimes be indicated.

piticu · Joined: 04 Aug 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Romania

that's what i'm using too for lubricate the helix: white lithium grease, bought in an auto shop - it's much much more cheaper than the one you pointed.
for polishing i'm using a soft rag and a all metal polishing cream. you should be careful not to polish out the engraved numbers/letters.
i think that the suction cup is just lost money, i rarely if ever need one.
when i open a lens i like to lubricate also the screws with a drop of wd-40.
before lubrication i clean all the metal parts with lighter fluid and/or ammonia based solution.
hope it helps

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

I go along with the white lithium grease for helicals too. I would never use WD40 for lubrication as it becomes sticky over time, but for loosening srews it's very useful. I use a tiny dab of old-fashioned Vaseline petroleum jelly here and there, for holding ball-bearings in place, for protecting battery terminals, etc.

The Lens Ring Tool Set is another unnecessary expense. It's a set of rubber friction tools of different sizes for gripping lens rings, bezels etc without damaging them. This can be done just as easily with ordinary items about the house, like a pencil eraser, a household glove etc. For stubborn rings I sometimes use a circular object (like an M42 rear lens cap) over a piece cut from a rubber glove. I've even made a friction screwdriver with a piece cut from a pencil eraser stuck on the end of the piece of wooden dowel. Very high torque is not required and these simple tools work fine.

nureality · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 12

found it in white and black. Is there a difference between them other than the color? Something that someone "in the know" would know that the rest of us do not?

and yeah its cheap. 1.97 for 14oz ... its more than I ever will need.

-Alan

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

Let's resurrect this old topic. What do you guys think about this one? Click here to see on Ebay.de Is there any reason not to use it? Do you know a better/cheaper solution readily available in Germany?

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

I have good experience with white Vaseline and bad with ball bearing oil.

My white Vaseline was very good except a little drawback, it's a little stiff when the lens get very cold (<5�C)

Ball bearing oil is to viscous and I guess that it may contain very voilatile parts which are able to evaporate and condense somewhere else on the inside of the lens (it may haze the glas, etc.)

I've never seen lithium grease here but I guess it's also not perfectly suitable anyway, as it's usually based on fatty acids (like soap) which can go rancid and very stiff after some years. But it might depend on the brand which fatty acid were used.

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

What about garden variety of silicon oil that pops up at Netto/Aldi from time to time? Is it too liquid?

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

I'm not happy with lithium grease at all, it's typically just oil held in suspension in a soap, and if it comes out of suspension you have oil everywhere.
Right now I'm testing something else that looks promising.
Famous Lubricants 'Orange Solid Oil' TLNC4
Edit: it's ok with simple lenses, but too thick for most lenses, especially when the temp drops.
I'm now using this:
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-HG-10/Grease-Helical-10-Light-8ml.aspx

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

Let's try to work out the list of key requirements. My family are chemists involved in design of oils and greases. I am sure they will come up with some good suggestion if I give them the needed specifications.

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

I've just relubed a Tair 300 with some silicone oil with very good results. I regreased it last year sometime with the lightest grease I had but that soon went stiff again.
The 'feel' of the focusing ring is now very good, and so far ( 2 months ) there's no change in the feel and no sign of any lube creep onto the blades.

I have no information about the silicone oil other than it's in a small plastic squeezy bottle marked 'Hach Company, Ames IA USA' and 'For laboratory use only'

It's very popular with the radio controlled car racing fraternity, and available in many viscosities.

From Wikipedia -
Applications

Silicone oils are primarily used as lubricants or hydraulic fluids. They are excellent electrical insulators [1] and, unlike their carbon analogues, are non-flammable. Their temperature-stability and good heat-transfer characteristics make them widely used in laboratories for heating baths ("oil baths") placed on top of hotplate stirrers, as well as in freeze-dryers as refrigerants. Silicone oil is also commonly used as the working fluid in diffusion pumps and in oil-filled heaters.
Some silicone oils, such as simethicone, are potent anti-foaming agents due to their low surface tension. They are used in industrial applications such as distillation or fermentation where excessive amounts of foam can be problematic. They are sometimes added to cooking oils to prevent excessive frothing during deep frying. Silicone oils used as lubricants can be inadvertent defoamers (contaminants) in processes where foam is desired, such as in the manufacture of polyurethane foam. Silicone oil is also one of the two main ingredients in Silly Putty, along with boric acid.

Automotive use
Silicone oil was commonly used as the fluid in the automobile cooling fan clutch assemblies, before the industry switched to electric cooling fans.[3]

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

eggboy · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject:

My 2 cents/pence worth: I use the MicroTools #10 light helical grease on most of my lens rebuilds...I like my focus action to be really light so I can make minute focus adjustments with one finger. Since most of the lenses I open up are older pre-war Zeiss, the tolerances are so tight that the light grease works perfectly.

One thing to note about what would be desirable for a lens helical grease is that it would have extremely low volatility: you don't want it to evaporate which will deposit a film on the lens elements near it....also it should maintain a pretty constant viscosity at a longish temp range...so it doesn't get too stiff on a winter day...or melt and run all around inside the lens.

So, whilst the Microtools lube is a bit pricey, if you do the job right, you really only needs a few dabs per lens. The 10ml cup should last for 50 lenses in my estimation.

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

I agree that a few dabs on a lens with a brass helicoid is enough, but i think those with aluminum helicoids require more to prevent galling.

Keysersoze27 · Expire: 2012-12-24

How about Nikon Nikkor OEM lens greases: I-40, GE-8, FC-4

� FC-4 is a white synthetic grease suitable for helicoids, cams, slides and key slots. Rated for use from -55˚ C to 100˚ C. Penetration: 450.
� GE-8 is a white synthetic grease used on key slots, slides and cam rollers. This grease is for the small moving bits of a lens, and is not typically used for helicoids. Rated for -45˚ C to 100˚ C. Penetration: 290.
� I-40 is a black molybdenum-based synthetic grease, used very sparingly on AF gear drive components with metal to metal contact. Rated for use from -55˚ C to 120˚ C. Penetration: 280

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

Hurry up, there is 15% discount available:
Click here to see on Ebay

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

I would think that it should be thick enough that it doesn't flow, so you know it will stay where you put it. A gel is almost perfect to me.

Keysersoze27 · Expire: 2012-12-24