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Minolta AF 1.7/50 on Sony A850
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:37 pm    Post subject: Minolta AF 1.7/50 on Sony A850 Reply with quote
I've owned this lens for 29 years but not used it for a longtime becausethe apereture blades were stuck wide open. I finally got around to cleaning the oil off the blades so it worked again and wow, what a lens, I knew it was damn good from when I used it on my Minolta film cameras but I hadn't realised just how good. I'd say this lens easily matches the performance of my Zeiss Planar T* 1.7/50 on the Sony a850, in macro and micro contrast, colours, sharpness, lack of CA, the Minolta is at least as good, which surprises me as the Planar is damn good.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes very nice lens. On my copy (MDIII) real sharpness is around f3,5. The 50 1,4 kicks in around f2,4, f2,8 but has more field curvature. In both cases, excellent lenses. At the current prices...


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like a great value lens, like many Minolta's.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a great lens, I tried it on my A7II with a LA-EA4 adapter and it was superb. I used it manually on the A6000 and it was good on that, but obviously cropped.
I wonder if it has the same optics as the MF version? which is surely one of the best 50's ever.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And pretty cheap right now as people are getting rid of their A-mount stuff.

This guy near me asking 60 euro for one. (Can't use A-mount so i'll leave it).

https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/audio-tv-en-foto/fotografie-lenzen-en-objectieven/m1812750655-minolta-af-50mm-f1-7-voor-sony-alpha-a-mount


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
And pretty cheap right now as people are getting rid of their A-mount stuff.

This guy near me asking 60 euro for one. (Can't use A-mount so i'll leave it).

https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/audio-tv-en-foto/fotografie-lenzen-en-objectieven/m1812750655-minolta-af-50mm-f1-7-voor-sony-alpha-a-mount


The older MF MDIII 1.7/50 can often be had for even less than that, even in good condition. I regularly see BIN prices on ebay of around £30 (about 36 euro). Not sure if it is the same optical calculation as the AF, maybe someone can confirm...


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
And pretty cheap right now as people are getting rid of their A-mount stuff.

This guy near me asking 60 euro for one. (Can't use A-mount so i'll leave it).

https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/audio-tv-en-foto/fotografie-lenzen-en-objectieven/m1812750655-minolta-af-50mm-f1-7-voor-sony-alpha-a-mount


The older MF MDIII 1.7/50 can often be had for even less than that, even in good condition. I regularly see BIN prices on ebay of around £30 (about 36 euro). Not sure if it is the same optical calculation as the AF, maybe someone can confirm...


Usually that is the case, but it will last only as long a the AF lens can be used by a sufficiently large group of people. Especially when the lens is plentiful. On ebay there are lots: https://www.ebay.nl/sch/3323/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=minolta+50mm+1.7+af&_sop=15

The Pentax FA 50mm 1.7 is less ubiquitous and hence more expensive. You'll find the Pentax-M 50mm 1.7 with the same optics much cheaper.
https://www.ebay.nl/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=smc+pentax-fa+50mm+%281.7%2C+F1.7%29+&_sacat=3323&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&_odkw=SMC+pentax-fa+50mm+1.7&_osacat=3323&_sop=15&LH_PrefLoc=2


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know if the MD versions are the same optics, I have at least two MD 1.7/50s of different variants, been a long time since I used them, but as David says, they are among the very best 50s.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I keep one in my kit. Its surprisingly good and surprisingly cheap. 25 dollars. I use it occasionally when looking for a normal range and faster speed than is afforded by my go to AF zoom, the (also cheap) 35-70 macro, also 25 dollars. I know this is the manual focus forum but I mix and match depending on what I am doing. Sometimes its just snapshots and I don't have time to seek out the best manual focus lens for a situation. I also keep the (less cheap) AF 20mm 2.8 in my kit.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
From my unscientific experience there is a kind of brutal sharpness that results from FD lenses I do not see in MD's. Something in the blacks that are more ink like which increases perceived contrast.
But there is no more resolution in the FD's. Sometimes quite the opposite. So the resolution and gentle contrast of the Minolta's allow for precise tweaking in post processing. The MD 50 1,7 is of that vein.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I don't know if the MD versions are the same optics, I have at least two MD 1.7/50s of different variants, been a long time since I used them, but as David says, they are among the very best 50s.


AF 50mm 1.7 (from service manual)





I thought this would be answered quickly, but evidently not.

There is an MD Rokkor 50mm f1.7 floating around, with an identical lens structure-



And imo this seems to be the last MD 50mm f1.7. But the one before that, people have assigned different diagrams- see https://i.postimg.cc/WbmK5nXj/image.png and https://i.postimg.cc/0yFBQBNY/image.png

Not to mention Minolta made a boatload of other very similar looking normal lenses http://www.subclub.org/minman/502.htm


Anyway- this wouldn't be surprising. The AF Pentax-FA 50mm F1.4 has the formula of the manual focus Pentax-A 50mm F1.4 released in 1984... and you can still buy this lens from Pentax new. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:


Anyway- this wouldn't be surprising. The AF Pentax-FA 50mm F1.4 has the formula of the manual focus Pentax-A 50mm F1.4 released in 1984... and you can still buy this lens from Pentax new. Wink


Not very surprising since the A was launched in 84 and the FA in 91. But the design goes back to the second super-takumar 50mm 1.4 (seven element version). First sold in 1965.

Here is a youtube video (in German) Of a guy comparing the Minolta with the Carl Zeiss planar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34lG8zdQgcY 20 minutes


PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:
There is an MD Rokkor 50mm f1.7 floating around, with an identical lens structure-


Printed lens diagrams are always a bit suspect, they are rarely exactly to scale.

I agree it looks the same and I therefore always assumed it was likely the same, but I was still wondering if anyone (with insider Minolta knowledge? Wink ) knows for sure that the MDIII 1.7/50 and AF 1.7/50 have the same formulation; some minor tweaks may have been applied...

But given that both the MDIII 1.7/50 and AF 1.7/50 were produced concurrently, in massive numbers as the "standard" standard lens, it would make sense to have the same glass in them...


PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:56 am    Post subject: Minolta 50/1.7 Reply with quote
The french photo magazine "Chasseur d'Images" stated in a review of the Minolta 50/1.7 AF that it was the same optics as the older Minolta MD. At that time (1990), the magazine included technical lab tests in each publication under the name "Centre d'Essais Chasseur d'Images".

I quote an exceprt : " Voilà un objectif qui a de la bouteille ! Car sous ses allures modernes on retrouve ni plus ni moins que le plus populaire des objectifs Minolta MD, habillé de neuf par le "design" AF. Du grand classique en somme... "


PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta 50/1.7 Reply with quote
Cadfael wrote:
The french photo magazine "Chasseur d'Images" stated in a review of the Minolta 50/1.7 AF that it was the same optics as the older Minolta MD. At that time (1990), the magazine included technical lab tests in each publication under the name "Centre d'Essais Chasseur d'Images".

I quote an exceprt : " Voilà un objectif qui a de la bouteille ! Car sous ses allures modernes on retrouve ni plus ni moins que le plus populaire des objectifs Minolta MD, habillé de neuf par le "design" AF. Du grand classique en somme... "


I was close from divorce because my wife threw away two famous copies of Chasseur d'images with the famous posters listing their tests for fixed focal and zoom lenses. Never been able to buy them back.

If someone could scan these and send them to me I may pardon my wife. So that would be an act of generosity aiming beyond my poor person.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
eggplant wrote:
There is an MD Rokkor 50mm f1.7 floating around, with an identical lens structure-


Printed lens diagrams are always a bit suspect, they are rarely exactly to scale.

I agree it looks the same and I therefore always assumed it was likely the same, but I was still wondering if anyone (with insider Minolta knowledge? Wink ) knows for sure that the MDIII 1.7/50 and AF 1.7/50 have the same formulation; some minor tweaks may have been applied...


I mean the diagram will tell you if there's any tweaks - just because it isn't obvious doesn't mean there isn't a difference, as overlaying the two will quickly reveal. Or you can measure the curvature of each surface.

Yes things like glass type changes can't be seen, but you wouldn't just upgrade the refractive index of elements in an existing lens and hope for better performance. Even if it might be possible.

And we don't know how Chasseur d'Images determined they were identical, they could just as likely be comparing the lens diagrams as we are.[/b]


PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 I like ('68?) Bug and the old sailboats... Smile


PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
eggplant wrote:
There is an MD Rokkor 50mm f1.7 floating around, with an identical lens structure-


Printed lens diagrams are always a bit suspect, they are rarely exactly to scale.

I agree it looks the same and I therefore always assumed it was likely the same, but I was still wondering if anyone (with insider Minolta knowledge? Wink ) knows for sure that the MDIII 1.7/50 and AF 1.7/50 have the same formulation; some minor tweaks may have been applied...


I mean the diagram will tell you if there's any tweaks - just because it isn't obvious doesn't mean there isn't a difference, as overlaying the two will quickly reveal. Or you can measure the curvature of each surface.

Yes things like glass type changes can't be seen, but you wouldn't just upgrade the refractive index of elements in an existing lens and hope for better performance. Even if it might be possible.

And we don't know how Chasseur d'Images determined they were identical, they could just as likely be comparing the lens diagrams as we are.[/b]


Tweaks can fall well within the even the thickness of the lines printed in diagrams. An update in the glass composition may only require a few microns change in curvature/thickness of an element; you won't see that in a printed diagram. E.g a newly developed glass composition with almost the same refractive index but lower dispersion; you won't see that change in a hand-rendered diagram but it is a new optical calculation with improved performance. Minolta were one of only a small number of camera manufacturers to make their own optical glass and were known for continuous improvement and development of new optical glasses.

But I mostly meant that different sources can print the diagrams differently. The same lens formulation, but rendered by different artists. In those days some of those diagrams weren't computer generated, but still hand-drawn by a technical artist, using different line thicknesses.

From Cadfael's comment it sounds like Chasseur d'Images did do lab tests though; I doubt they would go by a printed diagram alone.
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