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Maker of "Sears" 135mm f/2.8 ?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:12 am    Post subject: Maker of "Sears" 135mm f/2.8 ? Reply with quote
Greetings, lens experts. I need your help. Can anyone tell me who made this 135mm for Sears?


#1


#2



This lens is different from the common, Tokina made "Auto Sears" 135s. My guess is that it's a re-badged Chinon.
What do you think?


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Maker of "Sears" 135mm f/2.8 ? Reply with quote
My best guess is Sun Optical, or at least, one of its subsidiary plants (i.e. one of the several listed for Soligor lenses as 'Sun').

When looking for similar lenses on ebay, I only found two other brands of the same lens (currently listed), they were Rexatar and Elicar. The only clue I have is the other Elicar lenses offered on ebay, namely the 23/3.5, which I have as a Soligor badged lens, serial# starting with '4' and said to be made by Sun. The Elicar 23/3.5 looks to have a strong family resemblance to the 135/2.8 from Elicar which is the same as your lens. However, there are some minor differences, for instance in the focus marking line, which also cast slight doubts.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My first thoughts went to Sun Optical as well.
There is a Petri 135/2.8 that is quite similar, though not exactly the same.
See:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Petri-135mm-f-2-8-M42-Prime-Portrait-Prime-Lens-And-Case/192956499774?hash=item2ced1a873e%3Ag%3AGQ0AAOSwW2tdCqET&LH_ItemCondition=4


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It has a similar focus mark to this one httP://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_2619.html and screws in the bottom of the m42 mount.

Article says it is Kino so says this one: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Vivitar_Auto_135mm_f/3.5_Bright_Band

So it looks like a sixties Kino.

img_6830 by Steve Rainwater, on Flickr


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MY vote is tomioka. The 2 thin silver bands on either side of the grip and the orange lettering. Every lens I have found positive ID with that config has been tomioka:

example:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
MY vote is tomioka. The 2 thin silver bands on either side of the grip and the orange lettering. Every lens I have found positive ID with that config has been tomioka:


The font looks the same too, as far as I can see - particularly the "ft" over the "m" for feet and meters.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Variety makes the world more interesting. So I'm happy to see varied responses! Very Happy
Thanks to Alun, Oldhand, D1N0, jamaeolus and KEO for your replies.

I'm working on compiling a listing of Sears branded 135mm lenses and I'm trying to figure out where this one fits.
From 1975-78, Sears sold an SLR called the 2000ES. And I've read the 2000ES was actually a rebranded Chinon CE Memotron. My theory is this 135mm is also a re-branded Chinon and was offered at the same time as the 2000ES.
But, a theory is all I have. I haven't seen a Chinon branded lens which looks like my Sears...

Anyway, whoever made it, this 135 seems to be well built and a good performer. The aperture ring has unmarked half stops and the focus throw is smooth and long. In fact, I think a previous owner liked this lens because the focus rotation is so smooth that it's probably been re-greased. And that may be when the focus helicoid was re-assembled improperly (?) because the lens doesn't quite focus to infinity. Smile


Tim

Last edited by 55 on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"My theory is this 135mm is also a re-branded Chinon "

I agree this is very likely.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a version of this Sears 135 that has the "macro zone" focus function. It's a fairly heavy lens and well built. I think Samyang made my version.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
"My theory is this 135mm is also a re-branded Chinon "

I agree this is very likely.

Thanks for the comment, Luis.

Heh, this business of who made what gets confusing. My motivation for this topic wasn't so much to determine who manufactured this lens, but rather to establish a connection to Chinon. And since I'm not certain if Chinon actually made their own lenses, my original question could've been about potential suppliers of this lens - as well as the possible maker.

I've spent a lot of time studying Sears lenses. And for this one, being a re-badged Chinon makes the most sense to me. But if anyone else has another opinion, I'd still like to hear it.


secludedsea wrote:
I have a version of this Sears 135 that has the "macro zone" focus function. It's a fairly heavy lens and well built. I think Samyang made my version.

Yeah, I also have a copy of that made in Korea lens and I've used it a lot over the years. I like the soft look the "macro" setting can give.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don´t think Chinon ever made there own lenses. Always contracted.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm thinking Chinon as well. It has some similarities to this 300 / 5.6 ( M42 )

And I don't think the double bright band = Tomioka theory has any credibility, there's some real cheap rubbish out there with that style feature that can be reliably allocated to various makers,



PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
I don´t think Chinon ever made there own lenses. Always contracted.

Thanks, D1N0. I've been reading opinions about that. I thought this old thread was interesting:
http://forum.mflenses.com/chinon-and-tomioka-t61128.html


Lloydy wrote:
I'm thinking Chinon as well. It has some similarities to this 300 / 5.6 ( M42 )
. . .

Thanks for the input, Lloydy. But are you sure that's a 300mm in your photo? Maybe it's a 200? Wink


Tim


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would be completely OK to be proved wrong, but every time I get a clearly identified maker image its says tominon. All others are rebranded names like Focal (which I had and started the research into the subject) Auto Revuenon, etc. Also note that I don't have the "Tomioka fever" that seems prevalent in a lot of these forums. IMHO their lenses are most likely overall mediocre. With lots of variability from type to type. Some excellent, some not so good, made to spec for a buyer at a price point and that's what you will end up with. Their 55 1.2 is obviously quite good (probably not as good as the hype but still very good). While I have a polaroid Tominon that is decidedly mediocre. As was the Focal that I (tentatively) ID'd as tomioka.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
55 wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
I don´t think Chinon ever made there own lenses. Always contracted.

Thanks, D1N0. I've been reading opinions about that. I thought this old thread was interesting:
http://forum.mflenses.com/chinon-and-tomioka-t61128.html



Tim


Very Interesting indeed. Meanwhile I have found this lens that looks almost identical to the Sears (reverse aperture ring plastic a/m switch) just different focussing mark and DOF markings. http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1024-avanar-dyna-coated-135mm-f-2-8-22

Similarly built lenses can also be found as Pallas Magenta: http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1451-pallas-magenta-am-135mm-f-2-8-22 http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1613-pallas-auto-135mm-f-2-8-22-v3

And Chinon: http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1172-chinon-auto-chinon-135mm-f-2-8-22-v1

So who ever made this lens for Chinon also made it for Avanar, Pallas, Sears and probably a load of other brands. The reverse aperture ring should be a clue. The m42 Auto Chinon 28mm f.8 with 62mm filter ring also has the characteristic build with reverse aperture ring and plastic a/m switch and can be found for different brands. So I thin who ever made the Chinon 28mm also made this 135mm. I found a Soligor 28mm 2.8 with the same charactaristic, with 2xxx serial number said to be made by Sun optics. So I went looking for 135mm Soligors and found this one: http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1696-soligor-135mm-f-2-8-22 Also made by Sun Optical (7x serial) So I would say This sears is made by Sun Optical.

images m42lens.com



It seems the first two commenters were right.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sears lenses came from several suppliers through the years. I don't know if Sears went directly to manufacturers or dealt with trading companies who represented manufacturers. I credit in IP's lens to Sun. Sears 135s are more commonly of Tokina manufacture with Makina, Samyang and Sigma also supplying 135s. The lenses with the leather look focus grip bordered by polished rings that are often credited as Tomioka or Chinon manufacture are actually, I.M.O., made by Sun.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
. . .
So who ever made this lens for Chinon also made it for Avanar, Pallas, Sears and probably a load of other brands. The reverse aperture ring should be a clue. The m42 Auto Chinon 28mm f.8 with 62mm filter ring also has the characteristic build with reverse aperture ring and plastic a/m switch and can be found for different brands.
. . .
So I would say This sears is made by Sun Optical.
. . .


Thank you!

I really appreciate your detective work, D1N0. Sears lenses are of keen interest to me.
The 28mm lens with a 62mm filter ring you mentioned was also sold as an "Auto Sears".


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:
. . .
Sears 135s are more commonly of Tokina manufacture with Makina, Samyang and Sigma also supplying 135s
. . .


Thanks for that, casualcollector. This is just the sort of information I'm looking for!
Can you tell me or show me specifically which Sears 135s were made by or supplied by Makina?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm. I'm going to try to answer my own question.

I think the Makina-Sears 135s casualcollector referred to are these two:





#1


#2


#3



The Japan lens is M42 mount and the Korea is Pentax K. They both have built in hoods and take 55mm filters.
(I forgot to mention earlier, but the original lens in this thread also uses 55mm filters, but doesn't have a built in hood).

I've seen both these lenses branded as Chinon, but I'd never known who manufactured them. Perhaps Makina is the answer..?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:

The m42 Auto Chinon 28mm f.8 with 62mm filter ring also has the characteristic build with reverse aperture ring and plastic a/m switch and can be found for different brands. So I thin who ever made the Chinon 28mm also made this 135mm. I found a Soligor 28mm 2.8 with the same charactaristic, with 2xxx serial number said to be made by Sun optics. So I went looking for 135mm Soligors and found this one: http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1696-soligor-135mm-f-2-8-22 Also made by Sun Optical (7x serial) So I would say This sears is made by Sun Optical.


Excellent detective work to substantiate what was a semi educated guess, at least on my part. I have a Soligor 28 which has a '769' serial, the rear of the lens is quite distinctive, like so:

I've noticed many instances of this lens on ebay from many different badges. In fact I have a Cavalier and a Hanimex copy of the same lens I haven't got around to selling yet. They both have a 62mm filter ring.

I then checked online to see what the rear of the Chinon 28 (62mm) looks like. It's not 100% the same but fairly similar, and comes in at least 2 variants:




To me, that looks more or less a match.

Interestingly, I've never seen any of these, 28 or 135, sold branded as Sun lenses. During that period Sun prime lenses seemed to be mainly Sankor manufactured YS mount models. Later in the 70s they would come out with a range from 24mm all the way to 400/5.5, including a 200/2.8, which range was sold badged both as Sun and Soligor. And earlier, perhaps the mid to late 60s, Sun lenses with the 'H6' serial can be found, which seem to be a Tokina design.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
55 wrote:



#1



The Japan lens is M42 mount and the Korea is Pentax K. They both have built in hoods and take 55mm filters.
(I forgot to mention earlier, but the original lens in this thread also uses 55mm filters, but doesn't have a built in hood).

I've seen both these lenses branded as Chinon, but I'd never known who manufactured them. Perhaps Makina is the answer..?


Very interesting to see what is clearly the same lens, badged as being made in both Japan and Korea. I've always presumed the Sears '202' models to be Samyang manufactured. I've also heard people say on various other threads, that Makina were possibly merged with/taken over by a Korean manufacturer, most likely Samyang. The 'classic' Makina focus rubber grip was a somewhat coarser than normal pattern, which was noticed to change to a much finer pattern, similar to the difference shown in your two photos.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
55 wrote:
Hmmm. I'm going to try to answer my own question.

#3



The Japan lens is M42 mount and the Korea is Pentax K. They both have built in hoods and take 55mm filters.
(I forgot to mention earlier, but the original lens in this thread also uses 55mm filters, but doesn't have a built in hood).

I've seen both these lenses branded as Chinon, but I'd never known who manufactured them. Perhaps Makina is the answer..?


The left one looks like a later version of the lens in the opening post. Still reverse aperture but focussing is the other way around, Chinon has the same plastic a/m switch. http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1170-chinon-auto-chinon-135mm-f-2-8-22

I have the same strange aperture lever running on ball bearings the korean lens has on my Auto-Panagor Zoom 1:4 75-150mm which says it is made in Japan (and it is not a very good lens, so no Kino or Komine)


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:

Very interesting to see what is clearly the same lens, badged as being made in both Japan and Korea. I've always presumed the Sears '202' models to be Samyang manufactured. . .


D1N0 wrote:

The left one looks like a later version of the lens in the opening post. Still reverse aperture but focussing is the other way around, Chinon has the same plastic a/m switch. http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1170-chinon-auto-chinon-135mm-f-2-8-22

I have the same strange aperture lever running on ball bearings the korean lens has on my Auto-Panagor Zoom 1:4 75-150mm which says it is made in Japan (and it is not a very good lens, so no Kino or Komine)



Thanks for the comments, guys. I shouldn't speculate and put words into casualcollector's mouth.
If D1N0 is right, then the (second) Japan 135 may be another Sun. And as Alun said, made in Korea probably means Samyang.

And I also have several made in Korea Sears lenses which have the ball bearing aperture mechanism. But I haven't seen the ball bearing style on any of my made in Japan lenses.

Regarding Makina, if anyone knows which Sears lenses may have been sourced from them, please let me know.


Tim


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
55 wrote:
Alun Thomas wrote:

Very interesting to see what is clearly the same lens, badged as being made in both Japan and Korea. I've always presumed the Sears '202' models to be Samyang manufactured. . .


D1N0 wrote:

The left one looks like a later version of the lens in the opening post. Still reverse aperture but focussing is the other way around, Chinon has the same plastic a/m switch. http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/1170-chinon-auto-chinon-135mm-f-2-8-22

I have the same strange aperture lever running on ball bearings the korean lens has on my Auto-Panagor Zoom 1:4 75-150mm which says it is made in Japan (and it is not a very good lens, so no Kino or Komine)



Thanks for the comments, guys. I shouldn't speculate and put words into casualcollector's mouth.
If D1N0 is right, then the (second) Japan 135 may be another Sun. And as Alun said, made in Korea probably means Samyang.

And I also have several made in Korea Sears lenses which have the ball bearing aperture mechanism. But I haven't seen the ball bearing style on any of my made in Japan lenses.

Regarding Makina, if anyone knows which Sears lenses may have been sourced from them, please let me know.


Tim


I did some research because I wanted to know the manufacturer of my Panagor. No luck. But I did find a Super Albinar that had the same aperture mechanism: https://www.foto-sandor.de/super-albinar-sc-auto-zoom-80-205mm-80-205-mm-4-5-pentax-pk/objektive/manueller-fokus-fuer/pentax/a-65315/ (Also Japan)
Apperently it was a store brand from Best. An American chain. Here's a 135mm with the aperture: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Albinar-Auto-MC-1-2-8-135mm-Minolta-MD-Coated-/143055903236

A bit shady at best. Apparently Samyang was using this mechanism but it appears on made in Japan lenses. Mine still has a JCII sticker, issued in 1983. Korean lenses don't have a JCII certification I think.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
55 wrote:
casualcollector wrote:
. . .
Sears 135s are more commonly of Tokina manufacture with Makina, Samyang and Sigma also supplying 135s
. . .


Thanks for that, casualcollector. This is just the sort of information I'm looking for!
Can you tell me or show me specifically which Sears 135s were made by or supplied by Makina?


Makina made lenses had a chunky, rugged look. The rubber focus grips were coarse and grippy, construction was all metal but on closer look not quite as confidence inspiring as they seemed at first glance. The focus scales had a slight taper from the grip back to the edge. I have at least two Makina 28s. One with the Makina name, the other OEM labeled as a Rikenon. I don't think I have a 135 to show as am example.

The early Samyang made lenses also had chunky, all metal construction, but as the Makina made lenses, not so good on close inspection. They do differ in appearance from the Makina made lenses.
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