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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
This is the best image from yesterday's set I managed with the Primagon, it's a 6 shot HDR panorama for a total of 54 exposures. I think the Primagon is a good lens and works well for this type of work but it seems to have less saturated olours, less contrast and less flare resistance to the Lydith. Not by a lot, but to me the Lydith is slightly better, I think largely down to better coatings on the Lydith as it's a 70's lens and the Primagon is from the 60s.
Serious question, would a 2.4/35 Flektogon be noticeably better than either the Lydith or Primagon? There are loads of 35mm Fleks on ebay and they don't fetch very high prices so would be within my budget. I expect the Zeiss coatings will be better, but can people who own this lens comment on it's flare resistance, contrast and performance at infinity for landscape work?
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Last edited by iangreenhalgh1 on Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
If you can get a cheap Flek, try it and if you don't think it's better, sell it on 
A cheap Flek for me is about £50.00. Anything over £100.00 and I'd rather get a Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8 which is much better, unless you wanted close up capability.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
What sort of prices does the Distagon go for?
Just remembered I have a very nice Canon FL 2.5/35 I need to get Stan to fix.
I also have a Petri 2.8/35 I need to try.
I have a feeling one of those will be as good as a Flek, the 55mm Petri I have is as good as a Pancolar imho.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
What sort of prices does the Distagon go for?
Just remembered I have a very nice Canon FL 2.5/35 I need to get Stan to fix.
I also have a Petri 2.8/35 I need to try.
I have a feeling one of those will be as good as a Flek, the 55mm Petri I have is as good as a Pancolar imho. |
erm I don't get your problem as looking at your lenses you own and you have plenty of VG lenses to do panos......beats me why you don't use the VG Zuiko 50mm lens or buy a Tak 35mm f3.5. Stopped down would the flek or dist be so much better for all that extra cash?
super Tak 35mm f3.5 on Fuji film supermarket scan.
Even an ordinary lens like Kiron Vivitar 28mm f2 can give VG results. btw the chimney and window are really crooked to the eye.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You keep saying this but a 50 isn't wide enough, on my 10D it's a 75mm lens.
That last panorama is about 180 degree view, it took 3 shots with the 35mm lens to achieve that as it's around 65 degrees angle of view, the Lydith is 71. I want something wider to cut down the number of shots needed as it's a lot of work and takes time so clouds, water etc moves a lot and this causes issues that reduce IQ.
The Zuiko is nothing special. It doesn't even hit infinity on my EOS fully so not one to consider.
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Last edited by iangreenhalgh1 on Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
You keep saying this but a 50 isn't wide enough, on my 10D it's a 75mm lens.
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Well the expert here on panos doesn't have a problem:-
http://forum.mflenses.com/7-spring-panos-var-smc-and-zeiss-t17663,highlight,%2Bpanos.html
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
Ian
Have you considered the excellent Asahi Pentax SMC Takumar 28mm f3.5? A very good lens imho and not expensive if you shop around.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Please! Stop suggesting 50mm lenses! I have explained two or three times now why I don't consider them suitable, yes they will work but they are a ballache for this type of work, a 50mm lens has a horizontal view of approx 40 degrees on 35mm frame, on APS-C this becomes 30 degrees, meaning 7 shots (allowing for overlapping) would be needed to produce a 180 degree panorama. The vertical field of view of a 50mm lens on APS-C is only 20 degrees so I would need three shots vertically. Three rows of 7 shots is 21 shots. I take 9 exposures a third of a stop apart to create each HDR frame so to produce a panorama with a 180 degree horizontal view and a 45 degree vertical view I would need to shoot 189 exposures!
A 20mm lens on APS-C has a horizontal view of 71 degrees and a vertical view of 45 degrees. This means I would only need to shoot three shots to create that 180 degree wide, 45 degree high panorama. In HDR that would be just 27 exposures.
If you don't understand how much more time it takes to shoot 189 exposures than 27 then transfer all that data onto my PC then merge into HDR images then stitch into a panorama then you don't get why I want a wider lens.
Of course, there would be a lot more megapixels in the 189 exposure version but that really isn't an issue as I'm going to upgrade my camera soon so the 27 exposure version will have ample megapixels for printing quite large panorama prints.
I'm not explaining it further, I have a very clear concept of how this panoramic technique works and have done enouch panoramic work to have a good feeling for what type of lens I want to use.
I'm wanting a really good lens in each of the 20mm, 24mm, 28mm and 35mm lengths. I reckon the Nikkor 3.5/20 and Yashica ML 2.8/24 will cover the wider two, the 28mm an 35mm choices are somewhat less clear, I tend to think the Lydith will do for the 28mm length (despote being 30mm) for the near future, for the 35mm length the Primagon is good, but the single coating gives more flare and less contrast that I'd like. I have the Canon and Petri 35s to test, if neither of those satisfies me, I'll get a Flektogon 2.4/35 I think.
I really don't want to discuss 50mm lenses for this type of work...
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| DigiChromeEd wrote: |
Ian
Have you considered the excellent Asahi Pentax SMC Takumar 28mm f3.5? A very good lens imho and not expensive if you shop around. |
Thanks for that tip. That Takumar and the Nikkor E 2.8/28 both seem to be good candidates although I am not in a hurry to get another 28mm lens, I think a 20 or 24 is my next purchase.
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gaeger
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
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gaeger wrote:
I'd say that finding a lens for panoramas, whether they be 50mm, 80mm or 20mm, is the easy part. The technique is a little more problematic.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
****Please! Stop suggesting 50mm lenses! I have explained two or three times now why I don't consider them suitable, yes they will work but they are a ballache for this type of work,***
Oh well, you say yourself your best lenses are not wide angle, and if it's just a hobby............................................
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, technique is the key thing, I think a more modern camera than my 10D is probably a better upgrade than a lens right now.
I really don't get what point you're trying to make Excalibur, there is a difference between good and suitable. My Tair-3C is as sharp and high IQ as any of my 50s but I'm definitely not going to use the Tair for landscapes.
I want a wide angle lens, leave it at that please.
I've finished converting my Petri 2.8/35, just letting the epoxy cure, I'll give it a thorough testing this weekend. I've also done a temporary fix on my Canon FL 2.5/35 so I can test it's IQ. If it's as good as I suspect it is I'll get Stan to fix it properly.
I was looking at the two 24mm lenses I have and neither is any good for use on my EOS. The 'Exakta' branded one seems a nice lens but it's in Fuji AX bayonet and the way it's constructed can't be easily converted. The other one is in FD mount so would need a lot of work to convert, doubt it's worth it.
So now I need a 20mm or 24mm lens, I'm leaning towards a Nikkor 20, either the f4 or f3.5. In 24mm, the Yashica ML looks like the best bet in my budget range. But as I say, it might be best to get a new camera first.
Other purchases I need to make include a spirit level to fit a hotshoe and a better tripod with a panoramic/3D head marked in degrees.
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
Ian
I know I have suggested a couple of lenses already but another one that comes to mind is the Tamron Adaptall II 24mm f2.5 01B or 01BB. The 01BB was a later model with cosmetic changes but with the same optical design. This is another underated lens imho - as you can tell I have a soft spot for some Tamron lenses!
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers Edgar. I've never looked at Tamrons. I have an old 2.8/28 Tamron I haven't looked at yet, it has an FD mount so I would need a replacement adaptall for it.
I am pleased to report I've fixed the Canon FL 2.5/35, only issue with it now is the paerture won't open all the way to 2.5, it sticks at 4 so it's effectively a 4/35 lens now but I'm not bothered about that, I won't e using it wide open anyways.
It's a dull gray day here but I will snap some test shots with it in a minute or two.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I spoke too soon, seems the aperture was having 'a moment' and it now opens smoothly all the way to 2.5.
However, it looks like the lens now doesn't hit infinity.
Bugger, I had it hitting infinity before I glued the mount on, I'll have to see if I can figure it out and get it right as it looks to be a superb lens.
This is wide open at f2.5:
This one is at f5.6, looks pretty sharp to me:
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
This is why I'm confused about this Canon, before I glued it together it did hit infinity:
Was a right pain to convert this lens, required a lot of cutting of metal, grinding and sanding, in future I'll leave these tricky jobs to the pros!
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
Don't forget the Olympus 24/2.8 as well. I know where there's one for £75.00 if it helps.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thanks for that tip.
After playing with a friend's EOS 450D yesterday it's made me realise what an antique my 10D is so I'm leaning towards buying a new camera instead of a lens for the time being. I'm going to sell some of my lens to finance it, not that I have anything particularly valuable but I do have quite a lot of lenses I don't need or use.
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Thanks for that tip.
After playing with a friend's EOS 450D yesterday it's made me realise what an antique my 10D is so I'm leaning towards buying a new camera instead of a lens for the time being. I'm going to sell some of my lens to finance it, not that I have anything particularly valuable but I do have quite a lot of lenses I don't need or use. |
An antique it may be, but I still use mine as much as I do any of my other cameras. For a 6mp camera it still impresses me with the quality of the shots it produces!
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It's served me well and I only paid 70ukp for it. My only issues with it are the poor vf that makes it hard to focus and the way it's quite noisy, especially at higher ISO settings. I just feel more megapixels is what I need for these panoramas.
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ylyad
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
Megapixels might not help a lot (a full-frame would help much more) but noise management and dynamic range will for your HDR shots... The risk with more megapixels is that good lenses might become average
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Good points. I will have to look at what full frame options are available within my budget.
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poilu
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Good points. I will have to look at what full frame options are available within my budget. |
what is your budget? almost all slr are full frame
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I meant full frame digital, not film. I already have quite a few nice 35mm film SLRS.
I'm thinking an older full frame DSLR, but they aren't cheap, I might be better off getting a NEX.
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I meant full frame digital, not film. I already have quite a few nice 35mm film SLRS.
I'm thinking an older full frame DSLR, but they aren't cheap, I might be better off getting a NEX. |
Nex is a great camera but not that easy to focus using that rear screen, even with focus peaking. I'd recommend something like a Canon EOS 30D or 40D, which has a bigger viewfinder than you currently have and decent IQ.
If you want a full frame DSLR with decent high ISO, your only real option is a 5D classic if you're on a budget. And it's a cracker
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