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Leitz Colorplan vs Coloplan P2 vs Super-Colorplan P2 90mm
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:50 pm    Post subject: Leitz Colorplan vs Coloplan P2 vs Super-Colorplan P2 90mm Reply with quote
Did some comparison about the LEICA / Leitz Coloplan 2.5/90mm vs the newer P2 version vs newest Super-Colorplan P2



This is the measured transmission spectra, blue: Colorplan, green: Colorplan P2, gray: Super-Colorplan P2

Last edited by kds315* on Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:55 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fom the result of shown on the graph, can I say the Super-Colorplan should have more vivid violet/blue than the oldest Colorplan?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
Fom the result of shown on the graph, can I say the Super-Colorplan should have more vivid violet/blue than the oldest Colorplan?


Yes indeed and also a bit more red is transmitted too, it is more neutral than the others,
more evened out.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
These were images shot using the f2.5 / 90mm Colorplan (oldest one, German built, not Portugal)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157658050401373

Images taken with Colorplan P2 and Super-Colorplan P2 will follow...


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it really possible to see a 2-5% unit difference in colour transmittance in a aphoto?

calvin83 wrote:
Fom the result of shown on the graph, can I say the Super-Colorplan should have more vivid violet/blue than the oldest Colorplan?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is about 8% to 12% difference from 470nm to 420nm.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I was looking at red.

But are humans able to note these differences?
(I am more an audio dB guy)


calvin83 wrote:
It is about 8% to 12% difference from 470nm to 420nm.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is less than 0.2 stops, the camera white balacing with even this out unnoticed I guess.
But transmission is just one aspect, it is sharper in the corners and close to apochromatically
corrected from what I read, much more important.

My friend Marco Cavina has shown the improvement Colorplan to Colorplan P2 here:



So I expect the Super-Colorplan P2 to be even better than the latter P2 version.

I had the Super Colorplan P2 out today, will post pics tomorrow....


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, better corrected should make a nice difference.
Still, MTF 20 l/mm at around 70% is not that good. But maybe MTF is not saying all that much...

I have the Colorplan and like it Smile


kds315* wrote:
This is less than 0.2 stops, the camera white balacing with even this out unnoticed I guess.
But transmission is just one aspect, it is sharper in the corners and close to apochromatically
corrected from what I read, much more important.

My friend Marco Cavina has shown the improvement Colorplan to Colorplan P2 here:



So I expect the Super-Colorplan P2 to be even better than the latter P2 version.

I had the Super Colorplan P2 out today, will post pics tomorrow....


Last edited by Sigurd Ruschkowski on Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Images taken with Colorplan P2 and Super-Colorplan P2 will follow...

Thanks for posting the graphs, Klaus.
I have an older "Made in Germany" Colorplan and a "Made in Portugal" P2 but no Super-Colorplan and I'm curious how the Super-Colorplan P2 compares, in real-life shots, with the older ones. Waiting for your images! Smile

My Colorplans are both very good. As for differences, I think that the P2 is a bit more contrasty and a hair sharper than the older one, but only by a small margin. The P2 has a better flare resistance, too. This could be due to the deep front built-in hood it has or/and, probably, because of an improved coating.
It should be interesteing to see how the Super-Colorplan compares with the 90mm Elmarit (R or M), too. Some time ago I made some very basic comparative shots with my P2 and the 90mm Elmarit-R and my (unscientific) conclusion was that the Elmarit is still a bit sharper (well, the Elmarit is f/2.8 while the P2 is f/2.5...).


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just found a funny story about the differences between Colorplan P2 and Super-Colorplan here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56997422

"To decide between two lenses reminds me of the time when I was about to select a lens for my new slide projector. I had to make my mind up whether I wanted to buy either the Leica Colorplan or the Leica Super-Colorplan-P2. The Super-Colorplan-P2 being much more expensive. "Is the new Super-Colorplan-P2 much sharper than the old Colorplan", I asked the salesman. "Yes", he answered. "Will I be able to see the difference", I asked him. "No", he answered, "I don't think you will SEE that the Super-Colorplan-P2 is sharper, but you will KNOW that it is sharper". So I bought the Super-Colorplan-P2. Now, all these years later, I don't care if I could have saved some money if I had bought the Colorplan instead of the Super-Colorplan-P2, the Super-Colorplan-P2 is still the sharpest lens for my slide projector."

Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh well, we better not start such a discussion here :LOL:

Quote from Leica Projection brochure of approx. 1996:
"Advanced optical computation methods led to the SUPER-COLORPLAN-P2, whose optical performance surpasses even that of the renowned COLORPLAN-P2, to the point that its imaging quality is comparable to that of the APO lenses for our LEICA M and LEICA R cameras. Its highly corrected optical system provides excellent resolving power, brilliant illumination, true color fidelity, uniformly high contrast rendition and unequalled sharpness across the entire image area."

There have been numerous test in some german forums about that and they all confirm that the Super-Colorplan is sharper in the corners and has less visible CA; in the center there is hardly visible difference - hence overall until today, the best (Leitz/Leica) projection lens Wink Here one test (in German): http://www.rhein-main-fototreff.de/projtest.htm

Another quote from a seemingly eperienced user (Yau-Sun Tong) of PRO equipment stated:
"The "Super-Colorplan" is by far better than the "Colorplan" lens, very much so. When you use the "Leica Test Slides" (#942046) for projection comparison (it is a set of two identical color slides with lines, circles, numbers from center extend to all four corners), easily and clearly you can see the "Colorplan" lens can not reproduce sharpness towards outside the center area of the images, while the "Super-Colorplan" is able to reproduce uniformly, sharply, from center to corners, there are also other areas of image qualities that the "Super-colorplan" does better as well..."
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/78392-colorplan-p2-and-super-colorplan-p2/

I think I don't have a 2.8/90mm Elmarit, so I can only compare the various Colorplan emanations I so far have collected. But since comparisons are always wrong and very subjective, I won't try and do a "scientific" test. Wink

There have been claims that the Carl Zeiss P-Sonnar T* 2,5/90mm is as good (and its only costs 1/3 - 1/2 of the Leitz). I have that lens too, and so far has delivered excellent results https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157670323148861
and I'm looking forward to seeing the Leitz Super-Colorplan perform in comparison.

Regarding that last quotation Dan: "knowing it is better" is not and has never been good enough for me, I always have to test myself, sorry but that's the Engineer in me, hence this thread here Wink


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aha, I have just found your thread Klaus. Measured the transmission of my Colorplan (an all metal one) in the UV and corresponds well with yours. The 15cm Dimaron goes a little deeper though (it is a simpler internal construction).
#1


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep, that had to be expected! Simple triplets for projection lenses often give quite good transmission results, yet their image quality is not that great...


PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Oh well, we better not start such a discussion here :LOL:

Quote from Leica Projection brochure of approx. 1996:
"Advanced optical computation methods led to the SUPER-COLORPLAN-P2, whose optical performance surpasses even that of the renowned COLORPLAN-P2, to the point that its imaging quality is comparable to that of the APO lenses for our LEICA M and LEICA R cameras. Its highly corrected optical system provides excellent resolving power, brilliant illumination, true color fidelity, uniformly high contrast rendition and unequalled sharpness across the entire image area."

There have been numerous test in some german forums about that and they all confirm that the Super-Colorplan is sharper in the corners and has less visible CA; in the center there is hardly visible difference - hence overall until today, the best (Leitz/Leica) projection lens Wink Here one test (in German): http://www.rhein-main-fototreff.de/projtest.htm

Another quote from a seemingly eperienced user (Yau-Sun Tong) of PRO equipment stated:
"The "Super-Colorplan" is by far better than the "Colorplan" lens, very much so. When you use the "Leica Test Slides" (#942046) for projection comparison (it is a set of two identical color slides with lines, circles, numbers from center extend to all four corners), easily and clearly you can see the "Colorplan" lens can not reproduce sharpness towards outside the center area of the images, while the "Super-Colorplan" is able to reproduce uniformly, sharply, from center to corners, there are also other areas of image qualities that the "Super-colorplan" does better as well..."
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/78392-colorplan-p2-and-super-colorplan-p2/

I think I don't have a 2.8/90mm Elmarit, so I can only compare the various Colorplan emanations I so far have collected. But since comparisons are always wrong and very subjective, I won't try and do a "scientific" test. Wink

There have been claims that the Carl Zeiss P-Sonnar T* 2,5/90mm is as good (and its only costs 1/3 - 1/2 of the Leitz). I have that lens too, and so far has delivered excellent results https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157670323148861
and I'm looking forward to seeing the Leitz Super-Colorplan perform in comparison.

Regarding that last quotation Dan: "knowing it is better" is not and has never been good enough for me, I always have to test myself, sorry but that's the Engineer in me, hence this thread here Wink




What is this lens ? Is that a colorplan-P2？
Thanks for reply


PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
carwendish wrote:
kds315* wrote:
Oh well, we better not start such a discussion here :LOL:

Quote from Leica Projection brochure of approx. 1996:
"Advanced optical computation methods led to the SUPER-COLORPLAN-P2, whose optical performance surpasses even that of the renowned COLORPLAN-P2, to the point that its imaging quality is comparable to that of the APO lenses for our LEICA M and LEICA R cameras. Its highly corrected optical system provides excellent resolving power, brilliant illumination, true color fidelity, uniformly high contrast rendition and unequalled sharpness across the entire image area."

There have been numerous test in some german forums about that and they all confirm that the Super-Colorplan is sharper in the corners and has less visible CA; in the center there is hardly visible difference - hence overall until today, the best (Leitz/Leica) projection lens Wink Here one test (in German): http://www.rhein-main-fototreff.de/projtest.htm

Another quote from a seemingly eperienced user (Yau-Sun Tong) of PRO equipment stated:
"The "Super-Colorplan" is by far better than the "Colorplan" lens, very much so. When you use the "Leica Test Slides" (#942046) for projection comparison (it is a set of two identical color slides with lines, circles, numbers from center extend to all four corners), easily and clearly you can see the "Colorplan" lens can not reproduce sharpness towards outside the center area of the images, while the "Super-Colorplan" is able to reproduce uniformly, sharply, from center to corners, there are also other areas of image qualities that the "Super-colorplan" does better as well..."
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/78392-colorplan-p2-and-super-colorplan-p2/

I think I don't have a 2.8/90mm Elmarit, so I can only compare the various Colorplan emanations I so far have collected. But since comparisons are always wrong and very subjective, I won't try and do a "scientific" test. Wink

There have been claims that the Carl Zeiss P-Sonnar T* 2,5/90mm is as good (and its only costs 1/3 - 1/2 of the Leitz). I have that lens too, and so far has delivered excellent results https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157670323148861
and I'm looking forward to seeing the Leitz Super-Colorplan perform in comparison.

Regarding that last quotation Dan: "knowing it is better" is not and has never been good enough for me, I always have to test myself, sorry but that's the Engineer in me, hence this thread here Wink




What is this lens ? Is that a colorplan-P2？
Thanks for reply


Welcome to the forum!

As the legend says, it is a Colorplan-P which is an improved and well respected iteration of the already fine Colorplan lens.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
carwendish wrote:


What is this lens ? Is that a colorplan-P2？
Thanks for reply



Welcome Turtle here!

So aside from our private communication, you find me here, too Wink


PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
carwendish wrote:


What is this lens ? Is that a colorplan-P2？
Thanks for reply



Welcome Turtle here!

So aside from our private communication, you find me here, too Wink


Yes,indeed I find your email address first. LOL：


PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
carwendish wrote:
kds315* wrote:
carwendish wrote:


What is this lens ? Is that a colorplan-P2？
Thanks for reply



Welcome Turtle here!

So aside from our private communication, you find me here, too Wink


Yes,indeed I find your email address first. LOL：


It is on my site https://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/
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