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Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:34 pm    Post subject: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
Picked up this lens (1976) for a good price after watching Matt Osborne's review of it as a portrait lens on youtube.
Some first results with it (sorry didn't quite nail the focus).




Have to say I really like the character of this lens so far.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, its a very nice lens, but quite heavy!


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex Kraus wrote:
Yes, its a very nice lens, but quite heavy!


Yeah, it's over 600 grams. But for a portrait lens not really an issue IMO. And the LM adapter is very tiny.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
True


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great shots. The second image immediately brought to mind this:


#1


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laugh 1 Like 1 small


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is a wonderful lens, but I would not call it "pre-aspherical," which correctly is the later version produced since 1980. In Italy this version is called "unscrewable head". Sorry for nitpicking, but they are very different lenses, and it is good not to confuse them.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Have to say I really like the character of this lens so far.


I have an old silver one from the 1960s and I like it a lot. The images it produces have a really nice, distinct character.

The size and weight are really the only significant downsides, but honestly it's not that big.

Still, it's worth trying it's little brother, the Elmarit 90 2.8. That lens is also great, and it's really small and light.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
R or M mount?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ultrapix wrote:
This is a wonderful lens, but I would not call it "pre-aspherical," which correctly is the later version produced since 1980. In Italy this version is called "unscrewable head". Sorry for nitpicking, but they are very different lenses, and it is good not to confuse them.


I'm definitely not a Leica expert, but I noticed that the term Asph. is quite loosely used over the internet for both v1 and v2. But good to know, I didn't know that!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
R or M mount?


M mount. Perfect for my LM-EA7 Techart adapter.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
R or M mount?


M mount. Perfect for my LM-EA7 Techart adapter.

The lens head is removable in this version. The pre-asph version is this the later version http://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2_Summicron-M_III .


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
Have to say I really like the character of this lens so far.


I have an old silver one from the 1960s and I like it a lot. The images it produces have a really nice, distinct character.

The size and weight are really the only significant downsides, but honestly it's not that big.

Still, it's worth trying it's little brother, the Elmarit 90 2.8. That lens is also great, and it's really small and light.


Read good things about the Elmarit, which is obviously better for traveling or hikes, but I was looking for something slightly faster for extra creamy backgrounds. Especially since I decided to sell my Nikon AF D 85mm f/1.4 which is great, but a bit too modern for my taste. Portraits somehow look best with vintage lenses IMO.

In the slightly slower and portable category, my favorite lens currently is the Minolta 100mm f/2.5 (I have the last MC version, with the MD lens formula), which is great both as a portrait and landscape lens. Check out how it holds up against the much more modern and highly regarded Canon EF 100mm f/2 in this tread (Scroll down the first page): http://forum.mflenses.com/topcor-vs-minolta-vs-kaleinar-100mm-t84476,highlight,%2Bkaleinar.html

However, when I see a good deal on the Elmarit, or maybe a Sonnar 85/2.8, I may be seduced....


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I was looking for something slightly faster for extra creamy backgrounds. Especially since I decided to sell my Nikon AF D 85mm f/1.4 which is great, but a bit too modern for my taste. Portraits somehow look best with vintage lenses IMO.

In the slightly slower and portable category, my favorite lens currently is the Minolta 100mm f/2.5 (I have the last MC version, with the MD lens formula), which is great both as a portrait and landscape lens.
...
However, when I see a good deal on the Elmarit, or maybe a Sonnar 85/2.8, I may be seduced....


As you know I am testing my lenses usually in a "landscape" setting.
Nevertheless I like the 85mm/100mm portrait lenses quite much, and some interesting lenses might be:

1) Minolta AF 2/100mm
2) Minolta MC 2/100mm
3) Konica AR 1.8/85mm (low contrast and well controlled CAs wide open, high contrast and low CAs at f5.6 ... f11)
4) Mamiya SX 1.7/85mm (high resolution at distances around 1m)
5) Nikkor 1.8/105mm (low contrast wide open, prone to purple fringing => best for b/w portraits)
6) Minolta MD 2.8/85mm SoftFocus (smooth bokeh, and controllable softness from "zero" to "very soft")

Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/85mm certainly is well built (but so are the other lenses mentioned above). Often f2.8 is a "sweet spot" for portraits, and it should be a nice small lens for that purpose. I have an Elicar 2.8/100mm which seems to be a Sonnar type; that one might be good for portraits as well. Obviously not as well built as the others, though.

S


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So is this the 6 element or 5 element version? Does Matt own the 6 element? I thought he was talking about the later 5 element? I am getting confused. Each kid I have just seems to increase my confusion.

Last edited by cbass on Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
So is this the 6 element or 5 element version? Does Matt own the 6 element? I thought he was talking about the later 5 element? I am getting confused. Each kid I have just seems to increase my confusion.


Six elements, the one with the tripod mount.

caspert79 wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
This is a wonderful lens, but I would not call it "pre-aspherical," which correctly is the later version produced since 1980. In Italy this version is called "unscrewable head". Sorry for nitpicking, but they are very different lenses, and it is good not to confuse them.


I'm definitely not a Leica expert, but I noticed that the term Asph. is quite loosely used over the internet for both v1 and v2. But good to know, I didn't know that!


Of course, this version is also pre-aspherical, but it would be better to define the immediately preceding version the aspheric as such


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I only have experience with the Summicron-R 90 from 1970. Mine is actually from 1970 and the first batch made. First few hundred actually. That one is a 5 element that has more in common with the Summicron-M 90 from 1980. Surprisingly, the rendering from the pictures you posted from your 6-element version seem very similar. It looks like the lens retained its character.

I have a minor love affair with that lens when it comes to portraits. I have used a lot of portrait lenses. None that render like the Summicron 90. This is the first lens where I said WOW there actually may be something to Leica.

I also have an elmarit-R 90 Version 2, which is supposed to be the best corrected 90 before the APO Summicron. When it comes to technical tests indeed it is excellent. However, I never bonded with it like the summicron. In comparison is it very bland in rendering.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I was looking for something slightly faster for extra creamy backgrounds. Especially since I decided to sell my Nikon AF D 85mm f/1.4 which is great, but a bit too modern for my taste. Portraits somehow look best with vintage lenses IMO.

In the slightly slower and portable category, my favorite lens currently is the Minolta 100mm f/2.5 (I have the last MC version, with the MD lens formula), which is great both as a portrait and landscape lens.
...
However, when I see a good deal on the Elmarit, or maybe a Sonnar 85/2.8, I may be seduced....


As you know I am testing my lenses usually in a "landscape" setting.
Nevertheless I like the 85mm/100mm portrait lenses quite much, and some interesting lenses might be:

1) Minolta AF 2/100mm
2) Minolta MC 2/100mm
3) Konica AR 1.8/85mm (low contrast and well controlled CAs wide open, high contrast and low CAs at f5.6 ... f11)
4) Mamiya SX 1.7/85mm (high resolution at distances around 1m)
5) Nikkor 1.8/105mm (low contrast wide open, prone to purple fringing => best for b/w portraits)
6) Minolta MD 2.8/85mm SoftFocus (smooth bokeh, and controllable softness from "zero" to "very soft")

Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/85mm certainly is well built (but so are the other lenses mentioned above). Often f2.8 is a "sweet spot" for portraits, and it should be a nice small lens for that purpose. I have an Elicar 2.8/100mm which seems to be a Sonnar type; that one might be good for portraits as well. Obviously not as well built as the others, though.

S


i couldn´t find an affordable minolta 85mm yet, but i did find a FD 1.8 that i love, including landscapes
It is weird your are not mentioning this lens, truth is i have seen beautifull samples from Minolta 85mm. In my case, i much prefer this Canon against MD 100mm 2.5 for portraits.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:


I also have an elmarit-R 90 Version 2, which is supposed to be the best corrected 90 before the APO Summicron. When it comes to technical tests indeed it is excellent. However, I never bonded with it like the summicron. In comparison is it very bland in rendering.


More comparable is the earlier (5 lens / 54mm filter mount) Elmarit, probably my favorite


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I was looking for something slightly faster for extra creamy backgrounds. Especially since I decided to sell my Nikon AF D 85mm f/1.4 which is great, but a bit too modern for my taste. Portraits somehow look best with vintage lenses IMO.

In the slightly slower and portable category, my favorite lens currently is the Minolta 100mm f/2.5 (I have the last MC version, with the MD lens formula), which is great both as a portrait and landscape lens.
...
However, when I see a good deal on the Elmarit, or maybe a Sonnar 85/2.8, I may be seduced....


As you know I am testing my lenses usually in a "landscape" setting.
Nevertheless I like the 85mm/100mm portrait lenses quite much, and some interesting lenses might be:

1) Minolta AF 2/100mm
2) Minolta MC 2/100mm
3) Konica AR 1.8/85mm (low contrast and well controlled CAs wide open, high contrast and low CAs at f5.6 ... f11)
4) Mamiya SX 1.7/85mm (high resolution at distances around 1m)
5) Nikkor 1.8/105mm (low contrast wide open, prone to purple fringing => best for b/w portraits)
6) Minolta MD 2.8/85mm SoftFocus (smooth bokeh, and controllable softness from "zero" to "very soft")

Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/85mm certainly is well built (but so are the other lenses mentioned above). Often f2.8 is a "sweet spot" for portraits, and it should be a nice small lens for that purpose. I have an Elicar 2.8/100mm which seems to be a Sonnar type; that one might be good for portraits as well. Obviously not as well built as the others, though.

S


I've looked a few times at the Minolta AF 100/2, but they are usually very expensive and less nice to operate, being an AF lens. MC 100/2 would definitely be nice, but again, too expensive. Rokkor 85mm f/1.7 would be a lens I’d consider; great bokeh.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Leitz Canada pre-asph. Summicron 90mm f/2 Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:

i couldn´t find an affordable minolta 85mm yet,
but i did find a FD 1.8 that i love, including landscapes
It is weird your are not mentioning this lens, truth is i have seen beautifull samples from Minolta 85mm. In my case, i much prefer this Canon against MD 100mm 2.5 for portraits.


I simply was talking about a few less known lenses. I think you missed the point that I was neither talking about the Minolta MC/MD 1.7/85mm nor the MD 2/85mm, but the SoftFocus MD 2.8/85mm.

The common 1.7/85mm and 1.8/85mm MF lenses from CaMiNikon are very similar in their performance (detail resolution, contrast, bokeh). I have tested them side-by-side and cannot see much difference. Handling-wise I consider the Minolta to be superior, since focusing is smoother than with most Nikkors / Canon FDs I have seen.

Wide open, the MD 1.7/85mm may be slightly softer than the MD 2.5/100mm, but the difference isn't huge.


caspert79 wrote:

I've looked a few times at the Minolta AF 100/2, but they are usually very expensive and less nice to operate, being an AF lens. MC 100/2 would definitely be nice, but again, too expensive. Rokkor 85mm f/1.7 would be a lens I’d consider; great bokeh.


Yeah, that' a drawback obvioulsy. My first AF 2/100 was about CHF 150 or so, acquired in 2004. It was stolen in 2010, and since I urgently needed a replacement I had to buy what was available - it cost me >1000.--, from Hongkong. Not much later I sold it since I thought the MinAF 1.4/85 and the MinAF 2.8/100 would be sufficient. Soon I was regretting it, but not willing to pay crazy prices. In 2018 I found another one, like new for CHF 125.--, at a Zurich photo store.

The MC 2/100 is difficult to get as well, and not as rugged as the later MC 2.5/100mm. I was lucky to ge a like new sample a few years ago, but it was nearly 350.-- ... quite expensive, for sure. But hey, try getting a 2/100mm Talkumar!!

S


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is special about the Minolta 100 F2? Looking at prices it makes a summicron 90 look like a deal.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
What is special about the Minolta 100 F2? Looking at prices it makes a summicron 90 look like a deal.


Its rarity for sure.
For me personally hardly ever a reason to buy a lens. I bought my Summicron for 325 €.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The summicron 90 is relatively cheap compare to other leica M lenses. You can't find another Leica F2.0 lens at that price. It is more expensive than the 50/2.0 and should be close to the price of 35/2.0 when new.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two more images to illustrate how the lens draws wide open (clickable):

summicron by devoscasper, on Flickr

summicron_1 by devoscasper, on Flickr
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