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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:01 pm Post subject: In search of Swirls |
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caledonia84 wrote:
I like swirly bokeh, I know that bokeh is not supposed to swirl and that some people find it distracting. Anyway through some research I discovered I allready had 3 lenses that were known to swirl, the Helios 44m, Helios 44m-4 and the Fujian 35mm CCTV lens. I thought I'd try them out and see how I got on, from my findings with the Helios's there's definitely a sweet spot its around 6-8 foot from your subject and you need to have a good distance between the subject and your background. The Fujian optically has no end of problems, its very crude but oddly houses 12 aperture blades?!? so bokeh is remarkably good even stopped down. It does swirl also but is a bit more erratic than the Helios's.
While testing the lenses I bumped into a fellow forum member! It was great talking to someone with a similar passion for old lenses (especially fast 50's) He pointed out that the lenses will swirl more on a full frame sensor as my A6000 will crop out the edges where most of the swirlyness occurs.
Would be good to hear form you on other swirly lenses, I know of the Helios 40 but its a bit out of my price range
Fujian 35mm CCTV f1.7
 Kelvin Walkway Fujian 35mm CCTV by Scott Hills, on Flickr
 Fujian CCTV F1.7 by Scott Hills, on Flickr
 Botanic Bench Fujian 35mm CCTV by Scott Hills, on Flickr
Helios 44m-4
 Portrait practice by Scott Hills, on Flickr
 Portrait practice by Scott Hills, on Flickr
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 617
Location: Troy, MI USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
Another 'fast 50' that will produce swirling bokeh is the Leitz Summitar 2.0/50. Not a cheap lens but one of the more reasonable Leica lenses.
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Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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Marek
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 903
Location: In the heart of Europe
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Marek wrote:
Biotar 75 pretty much has it. A bit unaffordable and not that common, but as long as Earth turns around the sun, I've never liked compromises.
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Flickr | Juzaphoto | Ebay sales
marekfiser [at] gmail [dot] com |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
Many thanks Steve! still a wee bit out of my price range unfortunately but good to know 
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
| Marek wrote: |
Biotar 75 pretty much has it. A bit unaffordable and not that common, but as long as Earth turns around the sun, I've never liked compromises.
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Marek thats stunning, was that on full frame?
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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Marek
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 903
Location: In the heart of Europe
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Marek wrote:
Thank you but no FF. However, this B75 coppy was just sick wideopen 
_________________
Angry young man !
Flickr | Juzaphoto | Ebay sales
marekfiser [at] gmail [dot] com |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
This may not be an option but if you're willing to dabble in film, there are some inexpensive TLRs that'll give you a good swirl. Something like the Yashica 635 with its 3 element Yashikor would be a nice choice. Check out flickr samples. People do wondrous things with it.
Last edited by themoleman342 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
The CZJ pancolar 2/50,can be found cheap but usually has stiff focusing and little fungus. If you don't mind those two things, its a good lens in either Exakta or M42 mount.
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Moira, Moderator 
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:04 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Remove the back group from a Helios 44 then put the lens on a 20mm extension tube, then you have a 116mm lens that swirls like a Biotar 75.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 1432
Expire: 2017-05-23
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:44 am Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Wed May 11, 2016 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3666
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Yup, +1 for the Meopta Meostigmat 70 1.4, it's a fun portrait lens, and much cheaper than the CZJ 70/1.5 or the Helios 40.
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A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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RTI
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 282
Location: Moldova, Chisinau
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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RTI wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Remove the back group from a Helios 44 then put the lens on a 20mm extension tube, then you have a 116mm lens that swirls like a Biotar 75. |
yeah sure, and put some vaseline on the elements and you got the best soft effect and swirl, no need to buy expensive glass... 
_________________
Cameras: Canon 5DIII, Zorki-4, Canon AE-1
MF:Rokkor 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 58/1.4, Yashica ML 50/1.7, M39 Jupiter-9 (silver 1955), Zuiko 35-70/3.6
AF: Sigma Art 35/1.4, Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC, |
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miran
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Posts: 1364
Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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miran wrote:
As far as I can tell the older Helios normals (44-2) swirl a lot more than the newer ones (44M, 44M-4, etc.)
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, my 44M-7 hardly ever exhibits any swirl.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
Excellent info guys, really like the look of yhe meopta and like the sound of taking the rear lens out of one of my 44ms. My older 44m has stiff focus so could try it on that and not be too annoyed about messing it up. Vaseline sounds does sound like a cheap solution, however I'm looking for a more permanent solution. 
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
| themoleman342 wrote: |
| This may not be an option but if you're willing to dabble in film, there are some inexpensive TLRs that'll give you a good swirl. Something like the Yashica 635 with its 3 element Yashikor would be a nice choice. Check out flickr samples. People do wondrous things with it. |
Funny I was just looking at a yashica 635 the other day. I do like dabbling in film so sounds like a good idea
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 308
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
Yashica ML 50/1.9 C/Y - swirly and super cheap but plenty sharp. |
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littleearth
Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 77
Location: PT
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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littleearth wrote:
The Pancolar 50mm f2 and the Yashica ML 50mm f2 both swirl a lot and are cheap.
In MF I would suggest a cheap Super Ricohflex, because it swirls more than the Yashikor or the Triotar. |
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
Cyclop (aka Helios -40)
Cooke Kinic 1 inch
Soligor 2 inch
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Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
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DConvert
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 921
Location: Essex UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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DConvert wrote:
As well as the Fujian 35mm CCTV f1.7 you mentioned most other c mount lenses give similar Bokeh. |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 1432
Expire: 2017-05-23
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
EDited
Last edited by bernhardas on Wed May 11, 2016 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
| y wrote: |
| Yashica ML 50/1.9 C/Y - swirly and super cheap but plenty sharp. |
Had it and sold it when I got the ML 50 f1.4! Dammit! 
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
| littleearth wrote: |
The Pancolar 50mm f2 and the Yashica ML 50mm f2 both swirl a lot and are cheap.
In MF I would suggest a cheap Super Ricohflex, because it swirls more than the Yashikor or the Triotar. |
Many thanks
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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caledonia84
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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caledonia84 wrote:
| Nordentro wrote: |
Cyclop (aka Helios -40)
Cooke Kinic 1 inch
Soligor 2 inch
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Excellent especially that soligor 2 inch, you have any more info on that one? I cant seam to find much about it?
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caledonia84/
Current cameras
Sony A7riii, fuji x100t.
Lenses
M42 - Helios 44m x 2 44m-4, Helios 40 - 2, Mamiya Sekor 55mm f1.8, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4, Soligor 400mm f6.3, Zeiss Flektogon 35mm f2.4 Soligor 300mm f5.6, pancolar, 50mm f1.8, Orestor 135mm f2.8.
OM - Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Zuiko 50mm f1.4 x2
m39 - Jupiter 8 50mm f2
C/Y ML 50mm f1.4. DSB 28mm f2.8
Minolta MD - 35-70mm f3.5, Minolta 50mm f1.7 100mm f3.5.
Canon - 50mm f1.8, Elicar 90mm f2.5 macro
C Mount - Fujian 35mm f1.7
Fujica X - Porst 50mm f1.2, porst ww macro 28mm f2.8
Pentax K - Porst 50mm f1.4, Ricoh Rikenon 28mm f2.8.
Raynox DCR 150 & 250 |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 308
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
A random picture of mine taken with Yashica ML 50/1.9 C/Y. No PP applied, IIRC.
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