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gawn_dijitul
Joined: 08 Jan 2019 Posts: 10 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: ?? Helios 44 - Flip/Reverse Front or Rear Element or Both ?? |
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gawn_dijitul wrote:
Has anyone done a comparison of the Helios 44 (any version) as follows?
Front element flipped
Rear element flipped
Both front + rear elements flipped |
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DConvert
Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 901 Location: Essex UK
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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DConvert wrote:
I've heard of flipping the front element to produce a soft focus lens, but not the rear one.
Although I've not tried it quite like this I have removed the rear group from a different normal lens to produce a soft focus lens (of somewhat longer focal length) necessitating extension/bellows for focusing. Effects were quite serviceable.
The experiment also caused me to try a 105mm lens without the badly fogged rear group. This also lengthened the focal length and significantly boosted the contrast etc! |
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EDGARVE
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 89 Location: Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:09 am Post subject: |
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EDGARVE wrote:
I have modified one with the front lens and it requires a washer of the following measures exterior 30.5mm, interior 28.7mm, thickness 1.4mm, this is put before replacing the lens and the results here I leave, The data of the washer I saw it in a video that was on youtube[img][/img] |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 700 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:23 am Post subject: Re: ?? Helios 44 - Flip/Reverse Front or Rear Element or Bot |
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55 wrote:
gawn_dijitul wrote: |
Has anyone done a comparison of the Helios 44 (any version) as follows?
Front element flipped
Rear element flipped
Both front + rear elements flipped |
Absolutely! I love playing around with my 44-2.
Helios 44-2, all at f/2, near minimum focus distance, on my Canon 5D:
1) normal
2) front element reversed
3) front and rear elements reversed
4) rear element reversed
#1
#2
#3
#4
And the focus range changes when elements are reversed. Normal minimum focus distance is about 50cm. On my 5D, with the front element reversed, minimum focus became about 55cm and maximum focus went far beyond infinity
With front and rear reversed, minimum focus was a bit more than 50cm and maximum focus was to infinity or a bit beyond.
With rear reversed, minimum focus was about 40cm and maximum focus distance was 2 meters. |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2913 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
Very interesting! _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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gawn_dijitul
Joined: 08 Jan 2019 Posts: 10 Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:26 am Post subject: |
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gawn_dijitul wrote:
Outstanding replies so far. Thanks all!!
Regarding 55's examples. I think options 3 & 4 will work best with APS-C sensors. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:22 am Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Very interesting and speaking for itself! Thank you for sharing the examples. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Just a word of caution about flipping elements without checking clearances can result in elements touching, a little force and damage will occur.
Happy experimenting. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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DConvert
Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 901 Location: Essex UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:17 am Post subject: |
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DConvert wrote:
Lightshow wrote: |
Just a word of caution about flipping elements without checking clearances can result in elements touching, a little force and damage will occur.
Happy experimenting. |
I assume that's what the washer @Edgarve described is for, but I'm sure it's worth making it clear! |
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pdccameras
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 826 Location: Putnam, CT
Expire: 2014-08-11
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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pdccameras wrote:
As soon as I read this post, I knew I had to give this mod a whirl (pun intended).
You see, I have this Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 with a hopelessly stuck helical, so.....
I removed the front element and put it back in reversed - it does touch the 2nd element a bit, since I didn't take the time to make up a spacer as suggested. I next screwed the lens into a thin M42-Emount helical and took a few photos in the garden. I really like the results. See below. -Paul
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
_________________ Canon 5D Mii, Canon 40D, Canon 350D IR, Sony A7 Mii, Sony Alpha-6000, a ton of lenses: AF & MF and too many cameras to count, all formats: 110 - 4x5. |
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gawn_dijitul
Joined: 08 Jan 2019 Posts: 10 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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gawn_dijitul wrote:
^^^ Nice!! ^^^ |
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fatdeeman
Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 780 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:39 am Post subject: |
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fatdeeman wrote:
I see people selling them on ebay as Petzval mod (front element)
But also "trioplan mod" which sounds like the rear element, as doing the rear makes the bubble bokeh. But these sellers claim the lens will still focus to infinity. Anyone know how they are achieving that with just the rear element flipped?
When I've tried it, maximum focus distance has been greatly reduced to a few meters. _________________ - Dave
www.lensporn.net
www.flickr.com/photos/fatdeeman/
DSLR: Canon EOS 60D, Samsung GX-1S (Pentax *ist DS2)
Mirrorless: Panasonic DMC-G1, Sony NEX-5N
Compact: Canon PowerShot G3
Lenses:
Wide: Tokina RMC 28mm F/2.8, Tamron Adaptall 2 28mm F/2.5, Sun Optical 28mm F/2.5, Super paragon 28mm F/2.8, Sigma filtermatic 24mm F/2.8, Fujinon 35mm F/2.8, Sun Optical 35mm F/2.8
Standard: Industar 50-2, Helios 44-2, Helios 44M, Helios 44M-3, Pentax-M 50mm F/1.4, Pentax-M 50mm F/1.7, Pentax-M 50mm F/2, Ricoh 50mm F/1.7, Chinon 50mm F/1.7
Tele: Pentacon 135mm F/2.8, Pentacon 200mm F/3.5, Optomax 200mm f/3.5, Sun Optical 135mm F/3.5, Soligor 350mm F/5.6
Zoom: Tokina 28-70mm f/3.5-4.5 SZ-X270 SD, Sigma Zoom Pi 35-200mm F4-5.6, Sun Optical 28-80mm F/3.5-4.5, Sunagor 80-205mm F/3.8, Tokina RMC 80-200mm F/4, Vivitar 70-150mm F/3.8, Tamron 95-205mm F/6.3, Tamron Adaptall 28-200mm F/3.8-5.6 LD Aspherical, Tokina RMC 70-210mm F/3.5
Mirror: Falcon (Samyang) 800mm F/8, MTO-11CA 1000mm F/10, Tamron Adaptall 2 500mm F/8
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Ultrapix
Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 547 Location: Italy
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Ultrapix wrote:
fatdeeman wrote: |
I see people selling them on ebay as Petzval mod (front element)
But also "trioplan mod" which sounds like the rear element, as doing the rear makes the bubble bokeh. But these sellers claim the lens will still focus to infinity. Anyone know how they are achieving that with just the rear element flipped?
When I've tried it, maximum focus distance has been greatly reduced to a few meters. |
I suppose that "Trioplan mod" has more to do with removing the black peripheral warnish (or something like that) than with reversing the element, but I may be wrong. |
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Nisei
Joined: 24 Apr 2023 Posts: 5
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Nisei wrote:
When reversing the front element, max focus distance gets past infinity and minimum focus distance gets bigger. The beauty of the 44(2) is its simple design and you can easily alter the minimum and maximum focusing distance by unscrewing the lens unit. This puts the optical unit closer to your subject and has the same effect as using extension tubes. You could unscrew the whole unit and replace the aluminium washer that sits around the lens group with a thicker one so when screwing it back in everything sits tight again. |
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