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OohPancakes
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 3
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:17 am Post subject: Hazy lens element, not responding to normal cleaning methods |
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OohPancakes wrote:
I bought a Panagor 85-200mm 3.8 for like $10 off an auction site. I believe it's a clone of the Vivitar 85-200mm 3.8. The seller warned that it was hazey, and it definitely is. Photos taken with it are too soft and lacking in contrast.
It was surprisingly easy to dissemble though, and I managed to get to the offending element pretty easily. All other elements are clean and clear.
I tried cleaning it with diluted bleach and a q-tip and this appeared to remove the haze but once the bleach was wiped off the haze slowly crept back. I then tried isopropyl alcohol which didn't work at all, followed by a soak in bleach for a few hours which had the same result as the q-tip application.
Here's a photo of the haze:
Does anyone know what it is and whether it's cleanable? Thanks. |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8982 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Hazy lens element, not responding to normal cleaning met |
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mo wrote:
OohPancakes wrote: |
I bought a Panagor 85-200mm 3.8 for like $10 off an auction site. I believe it's a clone of the Vivitar 85-200mm 3.8. The seller warned that it was hazey, and it definitely is. Photos taken with it are too soft and lacking in contrast.
It was surprisingly easy to dissemble though, and I managed to get to the offending element pretty easily. All other elements are clean and clear.
I tried cleaning it with diluted bleach and a q-tip and this appeared to remove the haze but once the bleach was wiped off the haze slowly crept back. I then tried isopropyl alcohol which didn't work at all, followed by a soak in bleach for a few hours which had the same result as the q-tip application.
Here's a photo of the haze:
Does anyone know what it is and whether it's cleanable? Thanks. |
Welcome to the forum,your first post can not contain links or images ,but from now on you are fine.Hopefully someone may be able to assist you with your problem. _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
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inombrable
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 545 Location: Salamanca, Mexico
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:50 am Post subject: |
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inombrable wrote:
I have seen this kind of haze while trying to fix quite a few lenses, unfortunately i haven't been able to clean the glass, i work in a lab and i have tried very strong acids and very strong solvents, long dipping on them also and nothing ever has worked not even a slight reduction of the haze.
As i said before this to me looks like one of them and i am pretty sure you won't be able to clean it, i could be wrong of course and if you manage to do it please LET US KNOW how you did it.
Good Luck |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Where is the location of the haze? It will be cement degradation if it is inside the cemented element. There is no way to fix it unless you re-cement the elements. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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OohPancakes
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 3
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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OohPancakes wrote:
inombrable wrote: |
I have seen this kind of haze while trying to fix quite a few lenses, unfortunately i haven't been able to clean the glass, i work in a lab and i have tried very strong acids and very strong solvents, long dipping on them also and nothing ever has worked not even a slight reduction of the haze.
As i said before this to me looks like one of them and i am pretty sure you won't be able to clean it, i could be wrong of course and if you manage to do it please LET US KNOW how you did it.
Good Luck |
That's not what I wanted to hear
I think the next step would be something harsher like maybe silver polish. I feel like the haze MAY have been reduced a bit from my cleaning so far but I could be imagining it. Might try another soak in bleach anyway.
calvin83 wrote: |
Where is the location of the haze? It will be cement degradation if it is inside the cemented element. There is no way to fix it unless you re-cement the elements. |
It's definitely on the outside because it does respond to cleaning. I can rub it off even with just water, but it always comes back. |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4572 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
I also have had same issue and no success in cleaning.
Once I had tried to use metal polisher, quite some time rubbing with it did not have any visable effect. In the end I had left the glass soaking in the metal cleaner, kind of forgot to check earlier, and after some 15 hours it did have an effect: it then was even more milky..etched.. _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16544 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Cerium Oxide finest graded polish did the trick for me _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7785 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Cigarette ash is one of the abrasives used on lenses, I've never tried it. I have got a dead and very hazy lens at home so I'll experiment when I get back. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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OohPancakes
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 3
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 3:54 am Post subject: |
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OohPancakes wrote:
Lloydy wrote: |
Cigarette ash is one of the abrasives used on lenses, I've never tried it. I have got a dead and very hazy lens at home so I'll experiment when I get back. |
Wow that's surprising. Keen to hear the results... |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1633 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:36 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
I tried cigarette ash (Zeiss reccomendation) on a Canon FD 300/2.8L with fungus to remove the residuals. But it dit not work.
With lens polishing agent for car windows it was very easy to remove lens coatings and defects.
This car window polish agent is easy to buy and ready to use, pure cerium oxid could be hard to get in small amounts (I don´t need 25kg). _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Had a similar looking problem, which was solved as described below:
Apply a couple of wd40 drops on damaged surface, distribute evenly.
Lens still looks hasy - soak it in WD40 and left in airtight container for 2-3 days. You should then see your "haze" flaking around. If that does not helps, you could try primer for PVC pipes, but don't do it in plastic jar, use glass one with airtight lid - primer can be fatal if inhaled for a long time and it's vapour is easy to ignite.
Lens looks a bit less hasy when WD40 applied - bad news, you have surface etching, only professional re-polishing will help. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4748 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
I think it's surface etching. The fungus has gone but this is the mess it leaves behind. I have a similar problem. And also on the rear element. _________________ Hero in the 'messin-with-cameras-for-the-hell-of-it department'. Official. |
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mick232
Joined: 30 Nov 2013 Posts: 25
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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mick232 wrote:
Could it be glass disease? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_disease
I have that on some of my cheap drink glasses - it is unrepairable. Never heard about it on lenses, though. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7785 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
That make sense, when I've tried cleaning haze I have always thought it was the surface of the glass and not something on the surface.
Glass certainly degrades, many years ago when I was renovating this old house I needed a lot of glass for the old small paned sash windows, and I had little money. But I knew that a large tomato growing operation changed the hothouse glass every few years and they had crates of old glass just sitting there, it was free to anyone who wanted it. So I had my glass. But I had to sort through tons of the stuff to find sheets with no surface degradation. It was worst where the sheets of glass had been overlapped as they lay in the hothouse, obviously trapping moisture and maybe acids from the atmosphere inside the overlap. The overlapped surfaces were etched and completely ruined.
So perhaps the porosity of glass, even though it is extremely low, is the cause of the fogging we see on lenses? Could it be that lenses that have suffered condensation and taken a long time to dry begin to absorb moisture are hazed? _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16544 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Polish with Cerium Oxide (finest grade). Done that and worked for me, but lots of patience and elbow grease needed _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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rawhead
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Posts: 1525 Location: Boston, MA
Expire: 2014-04-29
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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rawhead wrote:
kds315* wrote: |
Polish with Cerium Oxide (finest grade). Done that and worked for me, but lots of patience and elbow grease needed |
Hello Dr. Klaus!
So I have an Aero Ektar that I disassembled and un-cemented a couple of the groups. one of the 4 lenses has haze/clouding that was inside of the cemented surface that is proving difficult to clean. Tried naphtha, 97% isopropyl alcohol, and toothpaste. Seems like it's gotten a tiny bit better, but still some hazing persists.
Just ordered Cerium Oxide (http://www.amazon.com/Gordon-Glass-Cerium-Oxide-Oz/dp/B007KOC19C/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=12K6BR57NQA5JPG2E0R3) in the hopes that this may do the trick.
Now, did you use like a drill/dremel tool and a felt tip, or did you do the polishing manually with microfibre or something? Application dry or with water/slurry?
Thanks! _________________ Sony α7R, Pentax 67II, Kiev-60, Hasselblad 203FE, 903SWC, Graflex Norita 66, Mamiya M645 1000s, Burke & James 8x10, Graflex Pacemaker Speed Graphic (4x5 and 3x4), Century Graphic (2x3), R.B. Graflex Seried D, Rolleiflex SL66E, Rolleiflex 2.8C Xenotar, Mamiya C330f, a few M42, six P6, three OM, four Hasselblad, two Pentax 67, two Mamiya 645, one Noritar, and a sprinkle of EF. Oh, and an Aero Ektar and Leica Noctilux |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1304 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
This is what the rear element of a "wundertute" 500mm f8 long tp looked like (looks worse than it does when looking through the element held to the light because the flash is catching and highlighting the haze).
The haze proved to be on the interior surface. I tried the usual things including acetone but nothing doing. Pics didn't look great, this crop of the castle is by way of example but not definitive because it was so windy I had to hold the lens on the bean bag with a finger or two so lens shake is an issue though I did get 1/1600 by bumping the asa to 800. Pentax K-r, RAW.
However when I mentioned the problem to my neighbour he suggested a quick polish with some jewelers rouge on his rotary polisher.
As you can see that has certainly done the job on the haze. But has taking off a micron affected the IQ? I haven't got back to the castle but the channel marker in the estuary is a regular test subject. From RAW, f8, f16
The improvement stopping down to f16 is a natural sign of a lens that isn't quite right wide open. But I can't say it wasn't like that to begin with! _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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WNG555
Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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WNG555 wrote:
I just received a cheaply purchased Vivitar 100-300 f/5 Close Focusing zoom.
It has fungus on the front elements and one of the rear ones. The front one was a straight forward cleaning. But the rear element was housed in an assembly of mounts and tube with thread locker. After breaking it free with acetone, I found an inner element that wasn't exposed to any outside source, was the offending piece.
Strange, it looked like fungus, star/corral patterns. But the rest of the elements are spotless.
It wouldn't respond to any liquid treatments. In the end, I concluded it was etched into the glass. How it became this way is a mystery, sealed, only affected element, on the surface, and where the lens contacted the mount, it wasn't etched, so I have a clear ring of what the glass should look like. Past this ring, the lens surface has no contact, and the haze continues.
Very odd.
I can only surmise that it either got contaminated prior to assembly, or the process or coating used would damage the lens over time.
The lens was ruined anyway, so I got some Mothers aluminum wheel polish as a last ditch effort. It has a mild abrasive and oxalic acid.
It worked well enough to remove the hazy etched surface and smooth out the patterns until they don't show when I shine a flashlight through the element. But the pattern is still faintly there, so there is still a bit more depth to go.
I am not trying to recommend this as a solution, just my experience with a ruined lens.
Cerium oxide sounds the best, and I think I will get some to continue polishing till the element is as clear as the ring. At least I have that to gauge my progress.
UPDATE:
I recalled a cheap source for cerium oxide. For those in the USA, Harbor Freight carries a windshield polishing kit for less than $10.
It comes with accessories to use a power drill to polish glass. And a nice 8 oz. container of red oxide.
I followed the instructions for hand-polishing. Used a piece of microfiber lens cloth and filtered water. After an hour of effort, the element looks usable again.
There is no way to control the amount of glass removed or how consistent across the element. Whether it's good enough for photography, I will find out once I the lens is reassembled.
UPDATE 2:
Well, I managed to get the Vivitar 100-300 f/5 back together, and initial test shots indoors looked promising. But next day in bright sunlight, a full battery of shots were taken at numerous focal lengths and stops. Pixel peeping at full size reveals the lens just can't achieve that last step of tack sharp focus. My results look better than marcusBMG's above, but I also don't know if this old lens design never was able to focus sharply as well. I foolishly forgot to take before samples when the affected lens arrived. (Note to self: must remember to do this for every lens!!)
I have another sample with a fixed Nikon mount arriving. So I will have a copy for comparison.
The lens is repaired to a level good enough for casual shooting, not for crops and sharp focus photography. :-\
Neighborhood shots approximately 50 feet away, Fotga Minolta to Sony E mount adapter, shutter 1/400-1/500, ISO of 100-200, shot at 300mm f/8 or f/11...
At infinity, plane was 100-200 meters away. I got sharper results from a point and shoot at an airshow!
This one was taken wide open at f/5 and 300mm. Not usable at f/5.
_________________ "The eyes are useless when the mind is blind."
Sony ILCE-6000, SELP1650, SEL1855, SEL55210, SEL5018. Sigma 19/30/60mm f2.8 EX DN Art.
Rokinon 8mm f3.5 Fish-Eye, 14mm f2.8 IF ED UMC. Samyang 12mm f2.8 ED AS NCS Fish-Eye.
And a bunch of Manual-Focus Lenses
My Flickr |
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