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Fujifilm X camera
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:25 am    Post subject: Fujifilm X camera Reply with quote
official teaser from Fujifilm http://fujifilm-x.com/teaser140128/en/ ( http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/20/fujifilm-teases-upcoming-slr-style-x-system-camera?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_0 )


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting.
Lets hope this SLR classic style is more refined than the Nikon's attempt.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks interesting! #drool


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well the nikon df is FF, has a world class sensor, and boasts arguably THE best low light/high iso performance ever seen, so you really think this is gonna be better? if it is i'll take two.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
but it's smaller, weights less, it's less fat, has i think at least the same dynamic range, very good iso performace (might the best APS-C/dx sensor in this field quite close to a FF) and is able to take a lot of manual focus lenses (via the appropiate adaptors) but of course it won't have the same DOF as a full frame one. Otherwise together with Sony's A7/r and Olympus omd-em1 is a very nice adition to the mirrorless world Smile


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i have used the xp1, the rx1 and the new m4/3 sensor on the epl5. it is only my opinion, but the equality of IQ exists only between the fuji and m4/3, where fuji holds a very very small lead upon very close inspection. compared to the FF rx1 sensor (the same as in the a7, but less resolution than a7r and less high iso/low light performance than nikon df) the xp1 is noticeably far behind. that is my opinion from my personal experience, observation and comparison.

on the other hand, the lenses for the fuji system are far larger than m4/3 and so the system loses any slight IQ advantage, imo. many fuji lenses are as big as FFslr counterparts. and because IQ is far inferior to new FFs from sony and nikon, i personally do not see any advantage in the fuji system, except analogue controls, which admittedly imo are indeed an important factor to many in system enjoyment.

in addition, the fuji xtrans raw files do not play well with any downloading software, whilst all other systems have no such problem. this new camera does nothing that i see to remedy any of these disparitys, and as a fuji fan, i am sorry to say, just seems like more of the same, nothing really new.
tony


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well, seems that the camera will bring a lot of goodies http://www.fujirumors.com/enjoy-more-x-t1-images-evf-specs-bigger-evf-than-e-m1/ (price is also high). In this case I suppose xpro2 will be more than $2000 Sad


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
well the nikon df is FF, has a world class sensor, and boasts arguably THE best low light/high iso performance ever seen, so you really think this is gonna be better? if it is i'll take two.


I agree with you.
My comment was a bit incomplete. When I said refinement, I was talking about the handling and feel of the camera, not image quality.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well, its fun to get excited about new cameras right?


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
i have used the xp1, the rx1 and the new m4/3 sensor on the epl5. it is only my opinion, but the equality of IQ exists only between the fuji and m4/3, where fuji holds a very very small lead upon very close inspection. compared to the FF rx1 sensor (the same as in the a7, but less resolution than a7r and less high iso/low light performance than nikon df) the xp1 is noticeably far behind. that is my opinion from my personal experience, observation and comparison.


Well, I disagree. The sensor in my X-E1 is by far the best sensor I have ever seen in any APS-cam!
Much, much better than any µ4/3- sensor I know, even considerably better than the one in the Lumix GX7.
Heck, it even thrashes the sensor of the classic EOS 5D easily.

High ISO performance of the X-E1 is better than the one of a NEX-7 or NEX-6 - and those are already pretty good.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well carsten thats what makes the world go around! as i said, it was my opinion based on my personal experience. as for the 5d, tbh, i had that too for years and got rid of it when it was 'trounced' by my then new x100! so i think thats neither here nor there, and is now ancient FF tech. and i didnt compare anything to the nex as i have no experience with those cameras.

i think many would be surprised to do what ive personally done and try to separate xtrans from em1 pictures in a lineup...and then again xtrans from A7 or DF. i found the former almost impossible and the latter pretty easy. but maybe not. perhaps my eye is not very good. and as high iso goes, which is something i do alot, the xp1 results i achieved were not any better than those i got from the latest m4/3 sensor in my epl5 (same sensor as in the em1, which many consider far superior to the gx7. i dont have a gx7 so i cant compare). that was very surprising to me, but thats what i saw and i,ll stick by it!


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gosh, I wish all that "talk energy" would go into shooting good photos with the equipment on hand Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Gosh, I wish all that "talk energy" would go into shooting good photos with the equipment on hand Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Yes. On the other hand, this is a "forum". In a forum people talk. Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
agreed. thats why i participate, to take part in or just read others' discussions. ive learned alot from both.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
High ISO performance of the Fujis may look good on paper, but don't forget their claimed ISO speeds are highly exaggerated Wink

That said, as a system Fuji is very good and their customer support appears second to none.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:

That said, as a system Fuji is very good and their customer support appears second to none.


Yes! Customer support including, and especially, when it comes to supporting existing cameras rather than trying to push new ones. Pretty much everything I had on my wishlist after I got the (pre-ordered) X-Pro1 has been addressed in firmware updates, and it's not just minor bugfixes but new features like “focus peaking”, “ability to set minimum shutter speed in auto ISO”, etc that you would have basically zero chance of getting with any other camera manufacturer without buying a new camera.

And of course the best Fujinon lenses are brilliant as well, especially the 23mm and 35mm f/1.4's.


(Meanwhile I agree with LucisPictor that the X-Trans sensor is the best APS-C sensor I've seen and by quite a margin, but I haven't compared to the latest NEX cameras… One thing to bear in mind when doing sensor comparisons is also the completely different colour filter array arrangement of the X-Trans sensor; some third-party raw developer software, especially the first versions by Adobe, are quite bad at processing it, so this may make the sensor less attractive to dedicated raw + Photoshop/Lightroom shooters.)


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ISO: I've heard about those exaggerated settings several times now. Need to check that.

Support: I agree. At least about firmware updates. Never seen updates that good before.

Fuji vs. Sony: I have compared the X-E1 to an NEX-6 and 7. Although the NEX-cams are really good at high ISOs, the X-E1 is better, by more than one stop.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yes, and fuji customer support is no small detail. my many year old x100 just got a major update a few months ago! who does that?! helps very much to build brand loyalty.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
High ISO performance of the Fujis may look good on paper, but don't forget their claimed ISO speeds are highly exaggerated Wink

That said, as a system Fuji is very good and their customer support appears second to none.


yeah, ive heard this before, but im not exactly sure what the hubub is about. i still find x100 performance up to 3200 very pleasing, though comparatively a lot of resolution is lost, its the NR algorithym that seems very pleasing to my eye. when i shot the xp1, i found high iso had more resolution than x100, but was less pleasing to me. what surprised me was, again to my eye, i was getting as good or better high iso resolution from my epl5 than i got from my xp1, and as compared to the rx1 it was simply apples to oranges.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
more on the xt1
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/three-new-fuji-x-t1-pictures


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Although the NEX-cams are really good at high ISOs, the X-E1 is better, by more than one stop.


Don't know about the X-E1, but on the NEX 6 with avaible light and extremly high ISOs (6400 and above), I always used the "Handheld Twilight" & "Anti Motion Blur" modes.. the results are much better (a lot less noise). Did you try this?


http://cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_NEX_3_5/Anti_Motion_Blur_AMB_results.shtml


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tedat wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Although the NEX-cams are really good at high ISOs, the X-E1 is better, by more than one stop.


Don't know about the X-E1, but on the NEX 6 with avaible light and extremly high ISOs (6400 and above), I always used the "Handheld Twilight" & "Anti Motion Blur" modes.. the results are much better (a lot less noise). Did you try this?


Those I consider to be "tricks". Clever ones, but still "tricks". I always compare the "normal" photos, because those special modes sometimes cannot be used for every kind of photography.

I confirm that the NEX-6 is a great available light cam. I have written that in one of my blogs recently:
http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/2014/01/01/die-sony-nex-6-als-weitwinkel-kamera/

It's in German, but you can see an ISO series there.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
ISO: I've heard about those exaggerated settings several times now. Need to check that.

Support: I agree. At least about firmware updates. Never seen updates that good before.

Fuji vs. Sony: I have compared the X-E1 to an NEX-6 and 7. Although the NEX-cams are really good at high ISOs, the X-E1 is better, by more than one stop.


It's an interesting one alright Smile Apparently the ISO values are overstated by between 1/2 and 2/3 of a stop on the Fujis, which is why on comparison tests the Fujis always need a slower shutter speed at the same aperture as other cameras. Either way, the Fujis appear to be very good at high ISO and have a nicer grain than the Sonys (which I find important).


PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:

Those I consider to be "tricks". Clever ones, but still "tricks". I always compare the "normal" photos, because those special modes sometimes cannot be used for every kind of photography.


you're right.. it are tricks, but they are avaible on any NEX/A7x and work very well in many case. Especially in lowlight setting where without a tripod when HighISO is needed. Means they can be very useful and shouldn't be neglected in a compare. At the end the result is what counts and not how I got it..


PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tedat wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:

Those I consider to be "tricks". Clever ones, but still "tricks". I always compare the "normal" photos, because those special modes sometimes cannot be used for every kind of photography.


you're right.. it are tricks, but they are avaible on any NEX/A7x and work very well in many case. Especially in lowlight setting where without a tripod when HighISO is needed. Means they can be very useful and shouldn't be neglected in a compare. At the end the result is what counts and not how I got it..


That would mean that we also need to consider how well you can de-noise an image by common software. In my opinion that leads us too far away of the original performance.
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