| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
BenScreenchannel
Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Posts: 1
Location: London
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: Fake Lenses |
 |
|
BenScreenchannel wrote:
Hi -
I'm working on the BBC TV programme "Fake Britain". I hope you don't mind me posting here - but I'm wondering if any of you can help with a current project.
I am producing a story for the programme about counterfeit cameras and photographic equipment being sold - particularly in the vintage camera market.
I am aware of issues with counterfeit cameras - eg. Leicas - and also with lenses - Zeiss in particular. I have read some of the posts and examples on here with interest.
However what I really need is to find someone who has actually bought one of these items of "fake" or counterfeit photographic gear. (Must be UK based). If any of you have, or know someone, I'd be grateful if you could pls E-mail me at benlaidlow@screenchanneltv.co.uk
Thank you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
99% of the fakes I've seen came from The Former Soviet Union and most were very obvious fakes. Mostly they modify FEDs and Zorkis to look like Leicas, usually wartime ones with all sorts of fanciful Nazi markings. You see Kievs modified to be Contaxes too.
This site ha sa good explanation of the phenomena:
https://www.cameraquest.com/fakerusk.htm
A couple of examples of fakes:
These things are readily available on ebay from the east. The only time you see them in Britain is when some tourist brings one back thinking they just bought a rare and valuable Leica dirt cheap.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Snowcat
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Posts: 110
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Snowcat wrote:
I can add that such things are not circulating on internal market. Those are made especially for places there foreigners buy different stupid things usually associated with Russia, like Matreshkas with the faces of soviet leaders, Ushankas (outdated Russian winter hat) and so on. There you can see such cameras. No Russian will ever buy something like that... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Actually, I have a set of Matroshkas with the faces of Lenin, Stalin, Krushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev and Yeltsin(I guess Andropov wasn't around log enough). Someone gave me tham as a gift many years ago. I also have a Ushanka, military surplus, I only wear it when the weather is very bad though. I have a bunch of FEDS, Kievs and Zorkis too, but none of them in fake guises.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edri
Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 315
Location: walking in the air
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
edri wrote:
It is not possible that some ebay Zeiss lenses to be not Zeiss but modified russian copies? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 356
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Basilisk wrote:
I would be surprised if there a lot of people passing off fake stuff as real - collectors of these things are reasonably knowledgable and stuff has to actually work to to some degree to be saleable. Making a working fake is no easy feat.
I would have thought the main problem if people selling defective genuine items, poorly described online. Badly serviced items, wrongly reassembled items, wrongly calibrated items, decentred lenses, dirty glass or cleaning damage, the list is endless; but they all started out as genuine items, even if they are now often more or less worthless |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
I understand that fake Contax (made from Kiev) are more easily passed off.
Lenses would be another matter. Attila has seen a few fakes, or rather homemade wannabe Zeiss, etc., but it doesn't seem to be a lot of them. It may be worth collecting fakes as fakes, they are fairly rare and interesting in themselves.
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7785
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lloydy wrote:
On some Facebook groups new collectors have sometimes posted pictures of their 'new Leica' and it's an obvious fake. People like to snap up a bargain thinking that they might miss it.
_________________
LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
enzodm
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 350
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
enzodm wrote:
Well, the link posted by Ian speaks not only of the kitch and obvious fakes, but towards the end also of more serious attempts, like documented in another page: https://www.cameraquest.com/leica_II_fake.htm and also by Rick Oleson: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-213.html
Here on MFLenses there in an article on Zeiss fakes: http://www.mflenses.com/how-to-avoid-zeiss-sonnar-fakes.html
However, I suspect is difficult to make it a national theme, if not for Germany or Russia (or Poland, if you read abou M2 and M3 fakes). Maybe looking on generic photography forums is better, some naïf buyer could have been tempted... Here there is some attention. I remember one on an Italian forum with a clear fake, asking for confirmation that became consolation 
_________________
Canon 60D, Tamron 17-50VC, Canon 55-250IS, Sigma 50-150/2.8 plus:
Wide: Mir 20/3.5, Kenlock 24/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Yashikor 35/2.8, Mir 37/2.8
Fifties: Voigtländer Color Ultron 50/1.8, Pentacon 50/1.8, Zenitar 50/1.9, Leica Summicron 50/2, CZJ Pancolar 50/2, CZJ Tessar 50/2.8, Industar 50/3.5 , Rikenon 55/1.4, Petri 55/1.8, Helios 58/2
In the middle: Cyclop 85/1.5, Nikon 100/2.8
135s: Tamron 135/2.5, CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5, Jupiter 135/3.5, CZJ Triotar 135/4, Tamron Twin Tele 135-225
Tele: Soligor 200/2.8, Pentax Super Takumar 200/4, Hanimex 400/6.3, Makinon 500/8
Various: Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 135/4.5, Tominon 105/4.5, Vest Pocket Kodak meniscus, Wray Supar 2"/4.5
Sony Nex 6 plus:
Industar 69 28/2.8, Fujian 35/1.7, Rokkor 50/1.4, Jupiter 50/2, Cosmicar 50/2.8, Industar-22 50/3.5, Leitz Elmar 90/4, Canon Serenar 100/4
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
I understand that fake Contax (made from Kiev) are more easily passed off.
Lenses would be another matter. Attila has seen a few fakes, or rather homemade wannabe Zeiss, etc., but it doesn't seem to be a lot of them. It may be worth collecting fakes as fakes, they are fairly rare and interesting in themselves. |
Early Kievs are pretty much Contaxes. Later ones have minor differences. Changing an early Kiev into a Contax is simply a matter of altering the faceplate, everything else is identical and many of the Kievs contain Contax parts carried off by the Red Army from Germany.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nordentro wrote:
I have a fake Leitz! But I knew it was fake before I bought it, and the pricetag was cheap 
Still a nice looking lens IMHO
_________________
Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edri
Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 315
Location: walking in the air
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
edri wrote:
I cut off the Sonnars from my shopping cart. Better buy a Jupiter, maybe I hit a fake Jupiter which is actually a Sonnar. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| Nordentro wrote: |
I have a fake Leitz! But I knew it was fake before I bought it, and the pricetag was cheap
Still a nice looking lens IMHO
|
I have had a few collapsible Industars, both I-22 and I-50, and they are very good lenses, every bit as good as a Zeiss Tessar. I have a solid brass one with a heavy chrome covering, I bet it's just as well made as a Leitz Elmar. It's much more common to find cheaper made aluminium ones however.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TAo2
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TAo2 wrote:
Hi Benscreenchannel,
There's now a market for obvious fakes with prices approaching £200 for some even when the seller puts FAKE!!! in the description. It's just another niche collectors corner now. Ah think yer mebbe on the wrong site for someone who's been fooled by a simple fake like a Leica top cover on a Fed or Zorki or Kievs dressed up as Contaxes. But ye never know...  . There are even fakes of FSU cameras, newer models tarted up as pre-war or scarce models of Fed/Zorki/Kiev.
Ah think that folk are much more savvy than some, even on this site, give them credit for. Ah honestly think these cameras are bought simply because they look good and who knows they may even function better than they did before the refurb. If yer going tae all the bother of sorting the outside then it's likely, imo, that the insides will get an overhaul as well.
This is my favourite fake...
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 617
Location: Troy, MI USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
newst wrote:
TAo2,
Thank you for that. I had a good laugh over it.
Steve
_________________
Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7785
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lloydy wrote:
Is there any documented faking of cameras and lenses other than the FSU - Leica fakes?
Companies like Cosina made camera chassis that ended up in all manner of other brands, including Nikon. And it was the same with so many of their lenses. Would it be worth it to create fakes from the likes of Cosina ?
_________________
LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
philslizzy wrote:
This guy wont be back. You need to email him. Oh, I'll send him a link.
_________________
Hero in the 'messin-with-cameras-for-the-hell-of-it department'. Official. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
There are rather few really valuable SLR's; its not like Leica variants.
I cant think of anything that someone would fake with a Cosina.
Some Nikon F's due to special rare variants or provenance - something that used to belong to NASA maybe.
But it would be much easier to start with a standard F
Alpa. But one would have to hand-build a camera.
Zeiss Contarex - also would have to be hand-built.
Rare models of Miranda, like Laborec. But one would have to start with a Miranda, and it would be quite a job even so.
Some Topcons
Rare versions of other common cameras, like gold plating some Pentax.
Just drawing a blank here.
The Soviet cameras are natural fakes beyond anything else because they are indeed copies of collectible cameras.
So most of the faking is already done. The rest is details.
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paulhofseth
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Norway
Expire: 2018-06-28
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:36 am Post subject: Genuine fake or fake genuine |
|
|
paulhofseth wrote:
Yes, in the case of Alpa, hand assembly and expert adjustment, possibly by someone well versed in the intricacies of the product. After Pignons went bust years ago, parts disappeared from the factory during the lenghty process before Capaul&Weber took over. Some years ago I noticed some new, very rare half frame and microfiche Alpas that could not have been made in Ballaigues. Strange coverings and if I remember rightly, strange serial numbers.
The prices asked were of course astronomical, so any transaction to buy the spares and wages for assembly would be amply covered.
The question then becomes, were these faked genuine Alpas worth as much as the genuine article or as they were genuine fakes, very similar to the real thing, -except for not being made by the factory- still worth the same as the genuine genuine ones.....
p. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TAo2
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
TAo2 wrote:
Tom on Fakes is a good read...
http://tomtiger.home.xs4all.nl/fakes.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMDBill
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 109
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AMDBill wrote:
| TAo2 wrote: |
Hi Benscreenchannel,
There's now a market for obvious fakes with prices approaching £200 for some even when the seller puts FAKE!!! in the description. It's just another niche collectors corner now. Ah think yer mebbe on the wrong site for someone who's been fooled by a simple fake like a Leica top cover on a Fed or Zorki or Kievs dressed up as Contaxes. But ye never know... . There are even fakes of FSU cameras, newer models tarted up as pre-war or scarce models of Fed/Zorki/Kiev.
Ah think that folk are much more savvy than some, even on this site, give them credit for. Ah honestly think these cameras are bought simply because they look good and who knows they may even function better than they did before the refurb. If yer going tae all the bother of sorting the outside then it's likely, imo, that the insides will get an overhaul as well.
This is my favourite fake...
|
not a fake one , But rather a very good work of study and engineering  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
On Alpa, it opens the question if they are fakes if they are built with original parts.
Its not quite like someone claiming that a Zorki is a Leica.
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nordentro wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
On Alpa, it opens the question if they are fakes if they are built with original parts.
Its not quite like someone claiming that a Zorki is a Leica. |
My lens is obviously a fake (re)made in smaller quantities, but I would rather say that the former USSR and also companies from japan where adaptive (good at remaking similar products cheaper, mostly based on German innovation).
I would be supprised if my lens was made on the assembly line by KMZ.
_________________
Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buerokratiehasser
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 470
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
buerokratiehasser wrote:
Everything that has hype value will be forged, even goldram bricks.
Had a good laugh at the Berichter fake. That's so shouting colors and fake it's already camp. Who wouldn't want to be a Berichter? What's the price?
The fake is obvious though, Volkischer without Ö and wrong s (s instead of f or fch ligature) also, speaking of ligatures, I believe the fraktur kerning would be more dense.
taunusreiter web site had some nice info on German camera industry, including one page about Contax/Jupiter fakes I believe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
