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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Expert opinions needed. Biogon or Jupiter-12? |
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newst wrote:
I am just a confused amateur who has read a lot about fake Zeiss lenses. One of the rules of thumb I have been carrying around is that a Contax Rangefinder lens is less likely to be a fake as there is less demand for them. Then today I came upon this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-Jena-35mm-F-2-8-Biogon-Contax-Rangefinder-Red-T-exc-A7-full-frame-/331849416787?hash=item4d43c44053:g:ReAAAOSw3mpXLF3G
Now another rule of thumb I have been following is that a red T coatings label was the Zeiss Opton label where Jena used the 1Q and pre-war doesn't matter as for all practical purposes there weren't any commercial coated lenses pre-war, or if there were the chances of my coming across one of those rare lenses are too small to consider.
So, what do the experts think, real or fake? _________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 1998 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
To my eyes, it doesn't look like a Jupiter-12.
You can check all versions of Jupiter-12 here : http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1072558845 _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
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alex_KS
Joined: 29 Oct 2015 Posts: 35 Location: Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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alex_KS wrote:
First of all - if you found Zeiss Jena lenses with red T it doesn't mean it's a fake!
According to the serial# that Biogon lens was made in 1940 year, when Zeiss was based in Jena and there was no any Oberkochen factory.
AFAIR Zeiss Jena start to make single coating on their lenses in the middle 1935, so there is nothing weird with red T marking. You can also find It on the Zeiss Jena lenses till the end of 1949 year (+/- few years, I'm not sure).
As for that interesting Zeiss Jena Biogon lens - In my opinion It's original Biogon and not a fake. The main proof is that last digits of the serial # is duplicated on the bottom of the lens block (it's distinctly could be seen on the 7th photo of ebay's link you provide).
And the last question - Is it worth to spend 800$ for It? It depends what you want. According to the fact it's original, it's very rare and hard to find in such condition - I'd say yes, It Is. Is It much better than Jupiter-12 lens? I'm not sure. Maybe it is a bit sharper, but it's hard to say untill you test it.
Would I spent 800$ for It? If you are the collector - why not? Such lenses will bewill go up in price in the future.
If not, I'd rather reccomend to search for KMZ Jupiter-12 lens (Contax or M39 mount), 1950-1959 prod. years for 70-100$. |
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
alex_KS wrote: |
First of all - if you found Zeiss Jena lenses with red T it doesn't mean it's a fake!
According to the serial# that Biogon lens was made in 1940 year, when Zeiss was based in Jena and there was no any Oberkochen factory.
AFAIR Zeiss Jena start to make single coating on their lenses in the middle 1935, so there is nothing weird with red T marking. You can also find It on the Zeiss Jena lenses till the end of 1949 year (+/- few years, I'm not sure).
As for that interesting Zeiss Jena Biogon lens - In my opinion It's original Biogon and not a fake. The main proof is that last digits of the serial # is duplicated on the bottom of the lens block (it's distinctly could be seen on the 7th photo of ebay's link you provide).
And the last question - Is it worth to spend 800$ for It? It depends what you want. According to the fact it's original, it's very rare and hard to find in such condition - I'd say yes, It Is. Is It much better than Jupiter-12 lens? I'm not sure. Maybe it is a bit sharper, but it's hard to say untill you test it.
Would I spent 800$ for It? If you are the collector - why not? Such lenses will bewill go up in price in the future.
If not, I'd rather reccomend to search for KMZ Jupiter-12 lens (Contax or M39 mount), 1950-1959 prod. years for 70-100$. |
Thank you. Just what I wanted to know. I just hadn't seen any labeled, coated lenses from that time period before this.
And no, I wasn't intending to buy. Indeed I was on Ebay looking for a Kiev/Contax Jupiter 12 and ended up ordering one this afternoon, a 1985 production lens for US $69, including shipping. I know my level of photography skills and if there is a noticeable difference between the Jupiter 9 and the Biotar I am not photographer enough to take advantage of it. _________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I own both Biogon and J-12. There is little difference, in fact, you will probably find that the only difference you can discern is the performance wide open at f2.8 - the Biogon will be sharp and the J-12 will be a little less sharp. Closed one stop to f4 however, the J-12 will be plenty sharp enough and retains the classical and to my eyes, beautiful rendering. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3771 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. Biogon or Jupiter-12? |
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stevemark wrote:
newst wrote: |
I am just a confused amateur who has read a lot about fake Zeiss lenses. One of the rules of thumb I have been carrying around is that a Contax Rangefinder lens is less likely to be a fake as there is less demand for them. Then today I came upon this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-Jena-35mm-F-2-8-Biogon-Contax-Rangefinder-Red-T-exc-A7-full-frame-/331849416787?hash=item4d43c44053:g:ReAAAOSw3mpXLF3G
Now another rule of thumb I have been following is that a red T coatings label was the Zeiss Opton label where Jena used the 1Q and pre-war doesn't matter as for all practical purposes there weren't any commercial coated lenses pre-war, or if there were the chances of my coming across one of those rare lenses are too small to consider.
So, what do the experts think, real or fake? |
I do, by chance, own a CZJ Biogon 2.8/35mm from the same batch as the one shown in "your" ebay link (2673101). My lens has T coating as well, and it is made from different materials as well (you can see in the images linked above that aluminium and another metal is used, due to wartime supply problems). I do also own several rare civil wartime 1.5/5cm Sonnars with T coating. I bought them here in Switzerland from Swiss owners - obvioulsy Zeiss was delivering their newest and best lenses to Switzerland even during WWII.
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. Biogon or Jupiter-12? |
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newst wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
newst wrote: |
I am just a confused amateur who has read a lot about fake Zeiss lenses. One of the rules of thumb I have been carrying around is that a Contax Rangefinder lens is less likely to be a fake as there is less demand for them. Then today I came upon this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-Jena-35mm-F-2-8-Biogon-Contax-Rangefinder-Red-T-exc-A7-full-frame-/331849416787?hash=item4d43c44053:g:ReAAAOSw3mpXLF3G
Now another rule of thumb I have been following is that a red T coatings label was the Zeiss Opton label where Jena used the 1Q and pre-war doesn't matter as for all practical purposes there weren't any commercial coated lenses pre-war, or if there were the chances of my coming across one of those rare lenses are too small to consider.
So, what do the experts think, real or fake? |
I do, by chance, own a CZJ Biogon 2.8/35mm from the same batch as the one shown in "your" ebay link (2673101). My lens has T coating as well, and it is made from different materials as well (you can see in the images linked above that aluminium and another metal is used, due to wartime supply problems). I do also own several rare civil wartime 1.5/5cm Sonnars with T coating. I bought them here in Switzerland from Swiss owners - obvioulsy Zeiss was delivering their newest and best lenses to Switzerland even during WWII.
Stephan |
Thank's Stephan, that is an interesting insight that I haven't seen before. _________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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