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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: ektar vs 5DII - with sample |
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poilu wrote:
since I have the 5DII, I don't shot film
I made a comparison with the contax 50 1.4
digital have more vignetting and it is more flat but it have more resolution, easier and cheaper
5DII
Kodak lab
scanned with dslr, as you see I have color balance issues with the ektar that I still have not resolved
comparison of resolution at 200%, 5DII have more resolution due to the grain of negative
the colors patch of digital come from the Bayer process as the lens resolve more than the sensor
_________________ T*
Last edited by poilu on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Selenium_27
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 118 Location: Strasbourg, France
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Selenium_27 wrote:
You just illustrate why I prefer film over digital.
The crop shows how the edges between two colou domains look weird in digital. On the opposite, the film one is pehaps grainy but transitions are smooth and, most important, have "texture", and that's what matters to me over definition...
But I understand we aren't all sharing the same point of view on images _________________ M42 Lenses : Zenit 100/1.5 (nice !!) Super-Takumar 1.4/50, Cyclop 1.5/85, Super-Takumar 2.8/105, Tair 2.8/135, Quinar 2.8/135, Super-Takumar 4/200 /// Used with : Spotmatic, Some Zenits,..
K lenses K 3.5/18, K 3.5/28, M 1.4/50 /// Used with : Pentax LX
M39 : Heliar 4.5/15, Ultron 1.7/35, Wartime CZJ Sonnar 1.5/50, Color Skopar 2.5/50 /// Used With : Voigtlander Bessa R2A, Zorki 1
P6 : CZJ Flektogon 4/50, Mir 3.5/65 CZJ Biometar 2.8/120 /// Used with : Kiev 60
Bronica bayonet : Nikkor 4/40, Nikkor 2.8/75, 4/200-- S2A currently down..
Minolta Rokkor 1.7/50, Rokkor 2.8/24 /// Used with SRT 101, XE-5 (so cute !!)
Other Bodies : Many plate folders, Gnoflex (Japanese 6x6 TLR, 3.5/75), Robin MKII (24x28, very rare and compact, 2.8/40), Rollei 35B (Triotar 3.4/40), Vito CL, Vitessa 500 (24x36 rangefinder, tessar)
100/1.5 for sale on ebay (click here)
LOOKING FOR a bronica body : S/S, A, Z,D,EC, EC-TL, EC-TL-II
Anything I have is potentially for trade. Try PM Me
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
Perhaps the digital is some fraction of a stop over exposed, and might hold a bit more of the stone texture with a smidge less exposure? _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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womble
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 987 Location: Hertfordshire
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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womble wrote:
I must admit I shoot quite a bit of film because I like using the cameras rather than any technical issue over film v. digital. For work related stuff I use digital. For example, I had to shoot a group of 59 artefacts from various angles. It turned into about 400 shots in the end. I could check the exposure then and there, I could check the lighting, I could check the angles etc. In my breaks during shooting I wandered around the barn in which I was working shooting images for fun using my LX loaded with Adox CHS 50.
It is courses for horses really.
K. _________________ Kris Lockyear
Digital: Pentax K-3iii
35mm film SLRs: various Pentax bodies from a H2 to a SF7, favourites the MX and LX
Rangefinder: Zeiss Super Ikonta IV, FED2, Zorkii-4, Industar 26m, Jupiter 8, 11 and 12 lenses
Medium format: various folders, Yashica Mat 124 G. Lubitel 2
LF: Horseman LE 5x4 view camera.
MF lenses (favourites) Pentax "K" 200mm f/2.5; "K" 135mm f/2.5; "K" 50mm f/1.2; "K" 35mm f/2; "K" 30mm f/2.8; "K" 28mm f/3.5 shift; "K" 15mm f/3.5; M 100mm f/2.8; M 40mm f/2.8; Jupiter-9 85mm |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
Nesster wrote: |
Perhaps the digital is some fraction of a stop over exposed, and might hold a bit more of the stone texture with a smidge less exposure? |
here is the auto output from capture one with default sharpening 180,0.8
it is possible to extra sharpen and use filters for the digital but look at those details
- the grid is less flat in film and the reflection in the window more visible ( shot taken in 1 min interval, no clouds)
- the pavement of the ground have more relief on film
- the vegetation have more shade of green
- ... add your comments
capture one - kodak lab
_________________ T* |
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berraneck
Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 972 Location: prague, czech republic
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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berraneck wrote:
Selenium_27 wrote: |
You just illustrate why I prefer film over digital. |
In this case it´s win to Ektar - but you can´t forget it´s the finest-grain colour negative on market (not speaking about colours, which are stunning! ). And it´s also my favourite slow-speed colour negative, except the price When you need to shoot at concert or anywhere indoors or at night (generally ISO from 800-1600 higher), todays DSLR cameras produce better results. _________________ equipment doesn´t count, good photographs do |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5019 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well if the 5dmkII is superior to even a £20 MTL3 with 50mm Meyer or Helios lens.......it damn well should do for what it cost _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Selenium_27
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 118 Location: Strasbourg, France
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Selenium_27 wrote:
berraneck wrote: |
Selenium_27 wrote: |
You just illustrate why I prefer film over digital. |
In this case it´s win to Ektar - but you can´t forget it´s the finest-grain colour negative on market (not speaking about colours, which are stunning! ). And it´s also my favourite slow-speed colour negative, except the price When you need to shoot at concert or anywhere indoors or at night (generally ISO from 800-1600 higher), todays DSLR cameras produce better results. |
For sure, but when I go to an exhibition and I look at a digital print, I see what I mentionned in my first post : ugly transition between coloured zones.. I can't help
For high ISO colour film, it's a shame that we have such a few options today... _________________ M42 Lenses : Zenit 100/1.5 (nice !!) Super-Takumar 1.4/50, Cyclop 1.5/85, Super-Takumar 2.8/105, Tair 2.8/135, Quinar 2.8/135, Super-Takumar 4/200 /// Used with : Spotmatic, Some Zenits,..
K lenses K 3.5/18, K 3.5/28, M 1.4/50 /// Used with : Pentax LX
M39 : Heliar 4.5/15, Ultron 1.7/35, Wartime CZJ Sonnar 1.5/50, Color Skopar 2.5/50 /// Used With : Voigtlander Bessa R2A, Zorki 1
P6 : CZJ Flektogon 4/50, Mir 3.5/65 CZJ Biometar 2.8/120 /// Used with : Kiev 60
Bronica bayonet : Nikkor 4/40, Nikkor 2.8/75, 4/200-- S2A currently down..
Minolta Rokkor 1.7/50, Rokkor 2.8/24 /// Used with SRT 101, XE-5 (so cute !!)
Other Bodies : Many plate folders, Gnoflex (Japanese 6x6 TLR, 3.5/75), Robin MKII (24x28, very rare and compact, 2.8/40), Rollei 35B (Triotar 3.4/40), Vito CL, Vitessa 500 (24x36 rangefinder, tessar)
100/1.5 for sale on ebay (click here)
LOOKING FOR a bronica body : S/S, A, Z,D,EC, EC-TL, EC-TL-II
Anything I have is potentially for trade. Try PM Me
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57839 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Excalibur wrote: |
Well if the 5dmkII is superior to even a £20 MTL3 with 50mm Meyer or Helios lens.......it damn well should do for what it cost |
yes _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
I corrected my post, the crop is 200%
here is the 100% crop of 5DII - my scan - kodak lab 6Mb
_________________ T* |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6943 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I shoot a lot of 135 & 120 film along with digital. I'm amazed at the quality you have from the film as my film work is not a patch on what comes out of my 5Dii.
Prints is another matter though. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
Martin wrote: |
I'm amazed at the quality you have from the film as
my film work is not a patch on what comes out of my 5Dii |
the Kodak lab use a noritsu koki qss-32_33, it make noise reduction, sharpening and the output is jpg of 6mb
I guess the output should be enough for a print up to A4, the noritsu should also make 20mb scan if bigger enlargement are needed
it is a good solution for photographers who make 30 films a year and don't want to mess with a computer
for someone like me who take 100 shots to keep 1, I guess digital is the clever way
now for the resolution it is not so easy
professional scanner can get 150lpmm of details from Ektar, this should be more than the 80lpmm of the 5DII
for my crop, I photography a portion of the negative at 4:1 then resample; I believe a pro scanner could get more
I guess flat scanner get less details than the 6mb of the noritsu, it should be easy to compare the output of your scanner to a lab scanned cd
check http://www.twinlenslife.com/2011/01/digital-vs-film-canon-5d-mark-ii-vs.html for a nice comparison 5DII - ektar
and check also the portfolio of this pro who use film http://www.twinlenslife.com/search/label/Editorial
don't forget to check older post on the same site, you will find some incredible vintage look with Fuji's Instant Pack Film and a great test where a Fuji GS645s make a D300 look like a p&s, here is a small quote
twinlenslife wrote: |
Though the majority of professionals are shooting digital now that is no measurement of what is better. It's merely a sign of the times and of what is popular today. The best of the best and nearly all of the fine art world still use film! Those of us who do not want to compromise for the sake of the trends still shoot film. Only film gives you complete access to all the information captured from highlights to shadows and still retain snappy contrast and color to boot. Only film will stand the test of time, lasting centuries longer than any of the ever changing file formats and storage devices. Only film gives you the freedom to shoot and forget about buying a cushy desk chair or failing eyesight from staring at a computer monitor all day long. Only film can make me smile! |
_________________ T* |
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Selenium_27
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 118 Location: Strasbourg, France
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Selenium_27 wrote:
Quote: |
Only film can make me smile! |
Isn't it the most important ?
Thanks by the way poilu for that instructing comparaison. _________________ M42 Lenses : Zenit 100/1.5 (nice !!) Super-Takumar 1.4/50, Cyclop 1.5/85, Super-Takumar 2.8/105, Tair 2.8/135, Quinar 2.8/135, Super-Takumar 4/200 /// Used with : Spotmatic, Some Zenits,..
K lenses K 3.5/18, K 3.5/28, M 1.4/50 /// Used with : Pentax LX
M39 : Heliar 4.5/15, Ultron 1.7/35, Wartime CZJ Sonnar 1.5/50, Color Skopar 2.5/50 /// Used With : Voigtlander Bessa R2A, Zorki 1
P6 : CZJ Flektogon 4/50, Mir 3.5/65 CZJ Biometar 2.8/120 /// Used with : Kiev 60
Bronica bayonet : Nikkor 4/40, Nikkor 2.8/75, 4/200-- S2A currently down..
Minolta Rokkor 1.7/50, Rokkor 2.8/24 /// Used with SRT 101, XE-5 (so cute !!)
Other Bodies : Many plate folders, Gnoflex (Japanese 6x6 TLR, 3.5/75), Robin MKII (24x28, very rare and compact, 2.8/40), Rollei 35B (Triotar 3.4/40), Vito CL, Vitessa 500 (24x36 rangefinder, tessar)
100/1.5 for sale on ebay (click here)
LOOKING FOR a bronica body : S/S, A, Z,D,EC, EC-TL, EC-TL-II
Anything I have is potentially for trade. Try PM Me
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Michele
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Michele wrote:
how do you scan color negative with dslr? I have tried but I wasn't able to have this good result. can you tell me your setup, please? I use a sunagor (series VII whit no lens inside) slide duplicator + lens + ext. tube, however I have the crop factor problem because I use an eos 350d camera. thanks |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
Michele wrote: |
how do you scan color negative with dslr? I have tried but I wasn't able to have this good result. can you tell me your setup, please? I use a sunagor (series VII whit no lens inside) slide duplicator + lens + ext. tube, however I have the crop factor problem because I use an eos 350d camera. thanks |
I use this bellow
for the crop factor, I made the wood stick to be able to move the duplicator more far away
check http://forum.mflenses.com/film-resolution-dont-miss-this-one-t10477.html for a comparison of Nikon 9000 at 4000 dpi and slide scanner (page 2)
check also http://forum.mflenses.com/best-slide-scanner-t4661.html
the main problem with this technique is for negatives like the ektar who are difficult to color balance
I have good result because I use a rodagon 75:4 lens, other lens give various result concerning resolution borders and CA
_________________ T* |
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Michele
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Michele wrote:
If I understand correctly you use two bellows: one attached to the camera, than the rodagon and then the other bellow with slide mount. how can you mount the second bellow to the lens? |
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marty
Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 767 Location: Italy
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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marty wrote:
poilu wrote: |
Michele wrote: |
how do you scan color negative with dslr? I have tried but I wasn't able to have this good result. can you tell me your setup, please? I use a sunagor (series VII whit no lens inside) slide duplicator + lens + ext. tube, however I have the crop factor problem because I use an eos 350d camera. thanks |
I use this bellow
for the crop factor, I made the wood stick to be able to move the duplicator more far away
check http://forum.mflenses.com/film-resolution-dont-miss-this-one-t10477.html for a comparison of Nikon 9000 at 4000 dpi and slide scanner (page 2)
check also http://forum.mflenses.com/best-slide-scanner-t4661.html
the main problem with this technique is for negatives like the ektar who are difficult to color balance
I have good result because I use a rodagon 75:4 lens, other lens give various result concerning resolution borders and CA
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Poilu, I'd be interested to know how you meter for the flash and how you set the flash itself. I have myself an old Metz hammerhead that I could use with a similar rig. Are you using a radio slave?
Michele, the lens is attached by means of a threaded ring screwed on filter thread. This ring is inserted in a slot in the free standard of the duplicator bellows and kept in place with the chromium plated screw you can see on top of the standard itself. Or at least my bellows unit works that way.
Cheers, M. _________________ Canon FD
Bodies: AT-1, A-1, T-90
Lenses: nFD 20mm f2.8, 24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2, FD 50 f1.8 S.C., 85 f1.8, 100 f2.8, 135 f2.8, 200 f4, 300 f4
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
Michele, see marty answer, I will try to write a tutorial this week to explain how to scan a negative with belllow
marty, I use the Metz only in manual, the interface is compatible Contax ttl but I don't think it is compatible with Canon ttl
the radio slave is a cheap one from thebay, now I use a cable because the battery of the radio slave is dead _________________ T* |
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marty
Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 767 Location: Italy
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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marty wrote:
Thanks, Poilu, for replaying. So basically it's trial and error, you go full manual and adjust the exposure on the camera and the flash to film distance (maybe you cut the flash power if available on your model).
The SCA interface is interchangeable, you should find the one for EOS though I think it is for film bodies and I'm not entirely sure it's fully compatible with digital Eoses.
Cheers, M. _________________ Canon FD
Bodies: AT-1, A-1, T-90
Lenses: nFD 20mm f2.8, 24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2, FD 50 f1.8 S.C., 85 f1.8, 100 f2.8, 135 f2.8, 200 f4, 300 f4
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Michele
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Michele wrote:
thanks poilu and thanks marty. the tutorial is a great idea!! many thanks
I've tried this method (http://www.scantips.com/es-1.html) with bed results, but maybe the problem is my lens! |
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