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djmike
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: Colors of lens coating? |
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djmike wrote:
When I was puting my lenses in order this afternoon. I found the coating color of lens is so fantastic. CZJ/Pentacon are mostly purple or blue color while Nikkor is green or light-blue and SMC Taks is yellow or light-orange. Could anyone teach me what is the effectiveness fomr different coating? And what is the coating material? And......... anything about coating? Thanks. Mike
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20096/1336_IMG_1891_1.jpg) _________________
DSLR: Canon 400D
SLR: Nikon FM2 + Canon A-1 + Canon AE1-P + Praktica MTL-5B + Pentax Spotmatic F + Fujica ST801 + Voigtlander Bassematic + Voigtlander Vito + Rollei 35S + Rolleiflex SL35 ME + Canon QL17 GIII + Olympus Pen EE-3
Lenses
M42: CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4 + CZJ Flektogon Zebra 35/2.8 + CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 + CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 + CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 Chrome + Pentacon 135/2.8 + Pentacon 50/1.8 + SMC Takumar 50/1.4 + SMC Takumar 55/2 + SMC Takumar 135/3.5 + Fujinon 55/1.8 + Jupiter-9 85/2 + Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 + Helios 44-6 58/2
Nikor: Nikkor 50/1.4 + Nikkor 28/3.5 + Nikkor 35-105 Zoom + 36-72 Series E Zoom
Canon: Canon FD + 28/2.8 + 50/1.8 + Canon 35-105 Macro Zoom
Other: Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
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estudleon
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
1- The strong reflections, high contrast lens (see this among the same schame lenses only).
2- The color of the reflection favors the pass of the complementary color. (orange reflection, pass better the blue and green waves).
3- The last is true for the filters too.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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visualopsins
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10946 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
more than you want to know: http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/optical%20coatings/index.htm _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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my_photography
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 03 Nov 2008 Posts: 2772 Location: Pearl of the Orient
Expire: 2016-12-25
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: |
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my_photography wrote:
Thanks for the link. I am bookmarking it. Very informative but unfortunately at the moment too much for me to digest. _________________
Zeiss: CJZ Flektogon 20/2.8, CJZ Flektogon 20/4, , CJZ Pentacon 29/2.8, CJZ Flektogon 35/2.4, CJZ Pancolar 50/1.8, Tessar 50/2.8, Biotar 7.5cm/1.5, CJZ Pancolar 80/1.8, CJZ Sonnar 135/3.5, CJZ Pentacon 135/2.8 CJZ Sonnar 200/2.8
Other Germany: Meyer Primoplan 50/1.8, Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8
Takumar: SMC 50/1.4 Super Tak 55/2, Super Tak 85/1.9, S-M-C 135/3.5, Super Tak 150/4
Russian: Zenith 16/2.8, Mir-24M 2/35, Volna-9 50/2.8, Helios 44M (58/2), Helios 44M-3 MC (58/2), Helios 40 (85/1.5), Tair 11A (135/2.8 )
Others: Sears 28/2.8, Sankor 35/2.8, Enna M�nchen Tele-Ennalyt 135/3.5
Zoom Sigma Zoom 28-85/3.5-4.5
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rick_oleson
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
Try this one then:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-166.html
Just one starting point to get you interested enough to read on: lens coating has no color. _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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djmike
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: |
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djmike wrote:
Siriusdogstar/Rick, thanks for the link. Good articles.
Is there any "exceptional lens" which is great but uncoated or single-coated? _________________
DSLR: Canon 400D
SLR: Nikon FM2 + Canon A-1 + Canon AE1-P + Praktica MTL-5B + Pentax Spotmatic F + Fujica ST801 + Voigtlander Bassematic + Voigtlander Vito + Rollei 35S + Rolleiflex SL35 ME + Canon QL17 GIII + Olympus Pen EE-3
Lenses
M42: CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4 + CZJ Flektogon Zebra 35/2.8 + CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 + CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 + CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 Chrome + Pentacon 135/2.8 + Pentacon 50/1.8 + SMC Takumar 50/1.4 + SMC Takumar 55/2 + SMC Takumar 135/3.5 + Fujinon 55/1.8 + Jupiter-9 85/2 + Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 + Helios 44-6 58/2
Nikor: Nikkor 50/1.4 + Nikkor 28/3.5 + Nikkor 35-105 Zoom + 36-72 Series E Zoom
Canon: Canon FD + 28/2.8 + 50/1.8 + Canon 35-105 Macro Zoom
Other: Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
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rick_oleson
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
There are tons of great uncoated or single-coated lenses. Carl Zeiss (the people who introduced lens coating, later on), in particular, placed great emphasis on designing to minimize internal reflections before antireflective coating was available. Some of the greatest lenses were the result of this effort, including the 50/2.0 Sonnar, 50/1.5 Sonnar, 85/2.0 Sonnar, 135/4.0 Sonnar, and one of the most famous of all, the 180/2.8 Olympia Sonnar of 1936. The "Sonnar" name indicated that the lens had only 6 air/glass reflecting surfaces, even though it might have as many as 7 elements in it. They did this by cementing elements together in groups ... a very challenging restriction to place on a lens designer, but it paid off in increased contrast. After WWII, lens coating made this design less valuable and they stopped designing this way - "Sonnar" today is just another name, it no longer signifies any particular design approach.
Another exceptional uncoated lens is the Zeiss Tessar; images from the 75/3.5 Tessars in prewar Rolleiflexes and Zeiss Ikontas can be almost startlingly sharp in black & white, and are equally sharp but with slightly subdued colors on color film. Cooke Triplets also, while they might not be thought of as great lenses, retain high contrast in uncoated form and are probably the single greatest achievement in photographic optics.
Single coating permitted good contrast in more complex lenses with more air/glass reflective surfaces - this allowed lenses like the Leitz Summicron, the rangefinder Nikkors that created Nikon's reputation in the 1950s, and fast SLR lenses like the 50/1.4 normal lenses from Nikon, Canon and all of the other major makers to become practical. Like the Sonnars, the Summicron and Nikkor have to be considered great lenses. Other single coated lenses that I would consider to be great include the 55/3.5 Micro Nikkor, the 105/2.5 Nikkor and all of the postwar rangefinder Sonnars, which are even better with coating than without.
Multi-coating has advantages with any lens (although of course it does nothing for sharpness), but it only becomes a major factor with the introduction of extremely complex formulas for retrofocus wide angles and, especially, zoom lenses, where there may be as many as 20 reflective surfaces or even more. The performance of many modern zooms would be seriously degraded by loss of contrast if they were only single coated, and without coating they would be virtually unusable. _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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Nesster
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
In 35mm camera lenses, Pentax introduced multi coating with the SMC Takumars, soon followed by Fuji etc. This was around 1971. Pretty much anything before then was single coated. Even after the SMC, other makes took longer to introduce, sometimes gradually, the multi coated lenses during the 70s. Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Konica - googling any of these reveals some things about when and which models received the multi coatings... _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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estudleon
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
A peculiar situation was considered in the Literature from the end of the 70's to middle of the 80's.
That was the fact that some manufacturers of lenses showed that many lenses did not improve with the MC, but that in fact lost something of his resolution power, but the market required that sold them with the MC.
They adduced that the MC modified the route of waves (refraction, reflection, incidence, etc) and thus changed design of the lens, that had not been modified for the MC.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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djmike
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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djmike wrote:
rick_oleson wrote: |
There are tons of great uncoated or single-coated lenses. Carl Zeiss (the people who introduced lens coating, later on), in particular, placed great emphasis on designing to minimize internal reflections before antireflective coating was available................... |
Rick, thanks for great advice. Any reason why CZJ/Pentacon's look purple , Tak SMC's yellowish, Nikkor's blue-green? Becasue of different coating materials? _________________
DSLR: Canon 400D
SLR: Nikon FM2 + Canon A-1 + Canon AE1-P + Praktica MTL-5B + Pentax Spotmatic F + Fujica ST801 + Voigtlander Bassematic + Voigtlander Vito + Rollei 35S + Rolleiflex SL35 ME + Canon QL17 GIII + Olympus Pen EE-3
Lenses
M42: CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4 + CZJ Flektogon Zebra 35/2.8 + CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 + CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 + CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 Chrome + Pentacon 135/2.8 + Pentacon 50/1.8 + SMC Takumar 50/1.4 + SMC Takumar 55/2 + SMC Takumar 135/3.5 + Fujinon 55/1.8 + Jupiter-9 85/2 + Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 + Helios 44-6 58/2
Nikor: Nikkor 50/1.4 + Nikkor 28/3.5 + Nikkor 35-105 Zoom + 36-72 Series E Zoom
Canon: Canon FD + 28/2.8 + 50/1.8 + Canon 35-105 Macro Zoom
Other: Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
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rick_oleson
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
No, not different materials. Please read the link I posted earlier, it explains why you see colors. _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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visualopsins
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10946 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
more on various coating materials: http://www.edmundoptics.com/techsupport/DisplayArticle.cfm?articleid=247 _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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djmike
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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djmike wrote:
Siriusdogstar/Rick, thanks again. _________________
DSLR: Canon 400D
SLR: Nikon FM2 + Canon A-1 + Canon AE1-P + Praktica MTL-5B + Pentax Spotmatic F + Fujica ST801 + Voigtlander Bassematic + Voigtlander Vito + Rollei 35S + Rolleiflex SL35 ME + Canon QL17 GIII + Olympus Pen EE-3
Lenses
M42: CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4 + CZJ Flektogon Zebra 35/2.8 + CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 + CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 + CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 Chrome + Pentacon 135/2.8 + Pentacon 50/1.8 + SMC Takumar 50/1.4 + SMC Takumar 55/2 + SMC Takumar 135/3.5 + Fujinon 55/1.8 + Jupiter-9 85/2 + Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 + Helios 44-6 58/2
Nikor: Nikkor 50/1.4 + Nikkor 28/3.5 + Nikkor 35-105 Zoom + 36-72 Series E Zoom
Canon: Canon FD + 28/2.8 + 50/1.8 + Canon 35-105 Macro Zoom
Other: Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
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Nesster
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
the other aspect of that peculiar situation in the 70s and early 80s - the manufacturers trying to find ways around patents and licensing fees for multi coating naturally were inclined to be of the opinion that MC was not necessarily a Good Thing. The issue died as soon as the technology became free of restrictions...
http://digilander.libero.it/aohc/selart07e.htm _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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poilu
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
thanks for all great infos! |
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no-X
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
My opinion is, that the fact, that some MC lens version are less sharp, than older single-coated lenses, isn't related to the coating, but to worse manufacturing precision, less strict tolerances and worse final inspection. I think that's the case of Sonnar-based lenses, which are not easy to manufacture. Old Jupiter-9 is better than the new one (MC), old Sonnar 135/3.5 (zebra) is sometimes sharper than newer (black MC), the same for 180/2.8 Sonnar. Another example can be Helios 44-2 and MC Helios 44M-4. Older version is more constant in quality, than the newer (MCed) one... _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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supahmario
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 615 Location: Berlin, Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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supahmario wrote:
what a great, educational thread!
thank you all! _________________ EOS 5D, EOS 30
Leica-R: Summicron 2/50
QBM: Distagon 2.8/35
PK: Tokina 3.5/17, Porst 1.2/55
M42: S-M-C Takumar 3.5/24, S-M-C Takumar 1.8/55, CZJ MC Sonnar 3.5/135, Jupiter 21M 4/200
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rick_oleson
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
I have no special inside information, but I tend to agree with no-x on this. There are surely many lenses that get no particular benefit from multi-coating, including most normal and tele formulas of modest aperture ... but I can't think of any reason why multi-coating would make a lens' performance worse. This might have been an argument that was made by companies whose coating technology was not on the cutting edge.
But I don't know, there might be something to it.... _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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djmike
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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djmike wrote:
I see. But it's that true MC version willl have better color contrast than uncoated, right? _________________
DSLR: Canon 400D
SLR: Nikon FM2 + Canon A-1 + Canon AE1-P + Praktica MTL-5B + Pentax Spotmatic F + Fujica ST801 + Voigtlander Bassematic + Voigtlander Vito + Rollei 35S + Rolleiflex SL35 ME + Canon QL17 GIII + Olympus Pen EE-3
Lenses
M42: CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4 + CZJ Flektogon Zebra 35/2.8 + CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 + CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 + CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 Chrome + Pentacon 135/2.8 + Pentacon 50/1.8 + SMC Takumar 50/1.4 + SMC Takumar 55/2 + SMC Takumar 135/3.5 + Fujinon 55/1.8 + Jupiter-9 85/2 + Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 + Helios 44-6 58/2
Nikor: Nikkor 50/1.4 + Nikkor 28/3.5 + Nikkor 35-105 Zoom + 36-72 Series E Zoom
Canon: Canon FD + 28/2.8 + 50/1.8 + Canon 35-105 Macro Zoom
Other: Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
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rick_oleson
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
Generally, yes. But in a lens with a small number of reflecting surfaces, such as a Triplet, Tessar or Sonnar, the difference between single and multicoating may not be noticeable on film. Where the number of surfaces gets very large (the 15mm Nikkor has 24, some zooms will exceed that), the difference in coating becomes very important. _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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estudleon
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
I think the same. Less elements, less MC is necesary.
But Koji showed that with his tessars and prakticars, a few elements lenses are beneficiaries with MC.
See
http://forum.mflenses.com/biotar-t-or-not-to-t-that-is-the-question-t14763,start,30,highlight,tessar.html#125223.
Do you like the tessar SC not MC? Well, but the differences there are.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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Aykman
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 57
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Aykman wrote:
this message is outdated and deleted!
Last edited by Aykman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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LucisPictor
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
estudleon wrote: |
2- The color of the reflection favors the pass of the complementary color. (orange reflection, pass better the blue and green waves).
3- The last is true for the filters too.
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Actually, it is only true for filters. It would be true for coating if you could see the colour of the coating when you look directly through the lens. And this you can't. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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estudleon
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
estudleon wrote: |
2- The color of the reflection favors the pass of the complementary color. (orange reflection, pass better the blue and green waves).
3- The last is true for the filters too.
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Actually, it is only true for filters. It would be true for coating if you could see the colour of the coating when you look directly through the lens. And this you can't. |
It can be true that you say, but only if you see thru the lens. If you do it thru each element, you can see by reflection which is the color that has the MC in this element and which has the favor pass. The imposibility to see any color thru the complete lens is due to the sum of all the colors reflected by all the elements the lens. But if you look at the first frontal element (at the last rear elemnt it's true too), you can see the reflection of the color which complementary is favor to pass.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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