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Canon 6d or sony A7? Which one do you prefer and why?
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Canon 6d or sony A7? Which one do you prefer and why? Reply with quote

Ok, so I want to step up my game and get my first full frame camera! YAY!

Friends Happy Dog Happy Cat Whoo Turtle

An entry model model will suffice for me, but I am really not sure if I should go with an A7 or a 6d. The fact is that I have very little insight of mirrorless cameras in general and sony in particular. I can't think of any friend or relative who owns one I could lend to experiment a little bit. Sad

The lens I use the most on my canon 1100d is a tamron 17-55, which is EF-S so I won't be able to use it in either camera anyway. Other than that I have only have one automatic lens that is the canon 50 1.8 which despite what most people say, has been a big disappointment.
So I don't really have much, if anything holding me to canon.

I own 15 manual lenses that would work on both cameras AFAIK. But I use the camera mostly for family gathering pictures, specially kids. Auto-focus is a must have. At least with my camera. Just yesterday I was trying out a takumar 105 2.8 and focusing was painful, borderline impossible.
Which takes me to my first question. How much easier is it to use manual focus lenses on the 6d and on the A7 compared to my camera with a tiny viewfinder? Is it just improved but still the same kind of pain, or is it night-and day? What is the key factor there? On the A7, do most people use the screen or the vewfinder when i comes to focusing wit manual lenses?


Then, more generally speaking, not so much in the lines of asking for advice, but more curious about different perspectives. Do you have any of these? What are your thoughts after using it? Which one would you chose and why?

A few questions about sony:

* How is sony kit lenses? My camera came with a 18-55 kit lenses which was horrible quality, are sony kit lenses considerably better?
* I remember, a couple of years ago, Ian used to post pictures taken with his nex in which he used an in-camera HDR feature, which I thought yielded good results. Does the A7 has this feature?
* Is the mount the same as NEX cameras?

A question regarding both cameras:

* My canon 1100d records video in a format that produces HUGE files. Quality is crisp, but this is overkill for my silly home videos. Is this solved in the 6d and the A7? Do they allow for video recording with a bitrate similar to that of mobile phones?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question similar to this one has been asked before, it all depends on what you want from the camera, what you shoot makes the difference.

See here: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?p=1495917#1495917


PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6d cost significant more than a7


PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own Canon 5D MkII and Fujifilm X-E1, a reflex and a mirorless.

Canon 6D + 24-105mm 3.5-5.6 is almost 600 more expensive than the Sony A7 + 28-70mm f3.5-5.6.

I would go for the Sony A7 because it will be more convenient with MF lenses, due to the digital viewfinder.
What you see in the viewfinder is what you get, and you can magnify the view to help precise focusing.

I have to say that I am very happy with my combo 5D MkII + Fujifilm X-E1.
I use them for different occasions and I agree with above said by Ren : all depends on what kind of photo you want to do.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the digitial viewfinder a big improvment when using manual lenses? Does it have a split hair thing in the middle? In which way is it easier?

I have a bunch of manual lenses that totally blow away my automatic ones. For example, the OM zuiko 50 1.8 totally wipes the flor with canon's automatic 50 1.8 in terms of resolution, right from wide open. Problem is, I cannot really get things in focus. It's a gamble.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jito wrote:
Is the digitial viewfinder a big improvment when using manual lenses? Does it have a split hair thing in the middle? In which way is it easier?

No, it doesn't have a split screen or micro prisms.

You have 2 ways to achiev an accurate focus with MF lenses on Sony cameras.
The first and fastest way is by "focus peaking" - the parts of the image that are in focus are colored red (or yellow - your choice). When you rotate the focusing ring of the lens you can see how those red colored parts of the image move from the closer objects to the more distant ones as the focus changes. This way you can chose where you want the focus to be.
The second way, the most accurate one, to proper focus MF lenses is with the "focus magnifier" - a part of the image is zoomed-in (I think enlarged ~10 times) and you can focus very accurate on it. That enlarged part of the image can be moved from center to where you want in the image (if you want to focus on a lateral detail and not in the center).
Both the "focus peaking" and the "focus magnifier" can be enabled/disabled by buttons assigned to this functions.

You can even use the 2 methods combined, by keeping the "focus peaking" enabled while using the "focus magnifier", and get an even more accurate focus, but it only is efective with high resolution lenses.

I think that yes, the electronic viewfinder is a big improvement when using manual lenses. And it's not only because of the 2 ways to focus described above. The EVF automatically compensate for low light (and for the white balance) and this makes both focusing in dim light and the visual control of the DOF (when you close the diaphragm) much easier than with an OVF.

jito wrote:
A few questions about sony:

* How is sony kit lenses? My camera came with a 18-55 kit lenses which was horrible quality, are sony kit lenses considerably better?
* I remember, a couple of years ago, Ian used to post pictures taken with his nex in which he used an in-camera HDR feature, which I thought yielded good results. Does the A7 has this feature?
* Is the mount the same as NEX cameras?

- I'll say that the kit lenses are acceptable (but not great).
- Yes, the in-camera HDR feature still exists.
- yes, the mount is the same.

If you decide for A7 I'll recomand to make an effort and get an A7II instead (for your MF lenses) - it has in-camera stabilization that works with all lenses, including all the old manual focus ones, and this is a GREAT FEATURE to have.


Last edited by dan_ on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I 100% agree Dan's words, and he's right when he insists on the in camera stabilization.
Nothing to add.
Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can find tests and sample images at ken rockwell.

He does not like Sony very much, but the images speak for themselves.

The 18-55 (A-mount) that came with Sony APSC DSLR I found nice, especially the 1:3.5 or what it was maximal magnification for insects.

However kenrockwell picked on its distortion, mudginess if not F8 and its generally flimsy plastic.

The E-mount 18-55 is similar, only it used to set you back $100 USED (!). Well that could be an advantage if you dump it on ebay..

If you are considering Sony you should also consider a used A-mount body perhaps. There are SLT and DSLR in that mount. A mount can adapt m42 but not the silly low flanges like MD.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Thank you so much for the reply dan_. I wasn't expecting such a through reply with all the information bits I was looking for. Really appreciated.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that the sony can provide me more value than the canon. It appears that pretty much any modern lens that doesn't cost a fortune has so-so performance. Hoards of people showing soft images and calling them "razor sharp" on the internet. Every lens is "really sharp", a "great lens", in their words.

I am not really willing to build a collection of lenses priced in the thousands of dollar range. Yet a couple of my manual focus lenses can pick detail that is completely out of reach for most automatic lenses. Both color and resolution wise. I might be able to squeeze more value out of my manual lenses with the sony.

Which lens would you guys recommend with a focal length somewhere between 16~35mm?


PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buerokratiehasser wrote:
You can find tests and sample images at ken rockwell.

He does not like Sony very much, but the images speak for themselves.

The 18-55 (A-mount) that came with Sony APSC DSLR I found nice, especially the 1:3.5 or what it was maximal magnification for insects.

However kenrockwell picked on its distortion, mudginess if not F8 and its generally flimsy plastic.

The E-mount 18-55 is similar, only it used to set you back $100 USED (!). Well that could be an advantage if you dump it on ebay..

If you are considering Sony you should also consider a used A-mount body perhaps. There are SLT and DSLR in that mount. A mount can adapt m42 but not the silly low flanges like MD.


Meh.. I don't think that is a good option for me. It wouldn't give me any advantage over a 6d. Does sony even has a full frame SLR model? Honest question.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jito wrote:
Does sony even has a full frame SLR model? Honest question.


Yes, the A850 and A900. But they are already out of production.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
jito wrote:
Does sony even has a full frame SLR model? Honest question.


Yes, the A850 and A900. But they are already out of production.


Don't forget the A99!


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrueLoveOne wrote:
tb_a wrote:
jito wrote:
Does sony even has a full frame SLR model? Honest question.


Yes, the A850 and A900. But they are already out of production.


Don't forget the A99!


Sorry, but the A99 is already DSLT and therefore not to be considered as a DSLR.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jito wrote:

Which lens would you guys recommend with a focal length somewhere between 16~35mm?

Jito, are you asking for Manual or Automatic lens ?

Here is a link for modern full frame lenses for the Sony A7
http://briansmith.com/sony-a7-a7r-a7s-lens-guide/


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both manual and automatic. Realistically speaking I am not expecting to find any auto lens that performs well as a decent manual for a reasonable price.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jito wrote:

Which lens would you guys recommend with a focal length somewhere between 16~35mm?...
...Both manual and automatic. Realistically speaking I am not expecting to find any auto lens that performs well as a decent manual for a reasonable price.

The only relatively reasonable priced (under 500$) new Sony auto wide lens that I know is the FE 28mm f/2, for ~400$ new. Fortunately it is a very good lens for the price, according to all the reviews (I don't have it and can't speak from my own experience).
The Samyang wide lenses can be found in E-mount for a reasonable price and have a very good price-quality raport. Most of them are manual-focus but lately Samyang released some auto-focus E-mount models, too (...for greater prices, of course).

If I have to speak from my own experience, for my Sony FF E-mount camera I have three new wide lenses: one manual-focus lens - a Super Wide-Heliar III 15mm f/4.5 and two AF lenses - a Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2 and a Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8. All the three lenses are very good and highly recommended (especially the 25mm Batis) but the price I had to pay for them was quite high.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan_ wrote:
The only relatively reasonable priced (under 500$) new Sony auto wide lens that I know is the FE 28mm f/2, for ~400$ new. Fortunately it is a very good lens for the price, according to all the reviews (I don't have it and can't speak from my own experience).
(...)
If I have to speak from my own experience, for my Sony FF E-mount camera I have three new wide lenses: one manual-focus lens - a Super Wide-Heliar III 15mm f/4.5 and two AF lenses - a Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2 and a Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8. All the three lenses are very good and highly recommended (especially the 25mm Batis) but the price I had to pay for them was quite high.


The new FE 85/1.8 is quite reasonable too at $600 / 650(~550 excl. VAT). Those two make a good combo, what Sony's really lacking is some reasonably priced zooms (e.g. 24-105/4, 70-300/4-5.6). An equivalent to the Fuji 18-55/2.8/4 would be great, too (maybe a 24-85/3.5-4.5).

I just sold my manual portrait primes (Cann nFD 100/2, Samyang 85/1.4), I'll put the money towards an FE 85/1.8.
I thought about the FE 28/2 but I'm quite happy with my manual wide angle lenses (Canon nFD 24/2, Pentax K28/3.5, Canon nFD35/2),
I'm still hoping that Sigma will make a reasonably priced 35/1.8 or 35/2 some day.

Adapting Canon zooms is of course an option but the AF on the first generation A7 bodies will be crap.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jito, if you are seriously considering to buy any of the Sony A7 models you might also consider to go for the Sony LA-EA4 adapter which would allow you to use Minolta AF lenses also in AF-mode on such a camera. There are some really good Minolta AF lenses available second hand; e.g. the Minolta AF 20mm/F2.8, the 24mm/F2.8, the 28mm/F2.8 or the 35mm/F2. I have all those lenses for the use on my Sony A850 FF camera and can confirm that they are very good to excellent.
Just my 2 cents...


PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never had an A9 but Rockwell just posted that he thinks he has "proved" their sensor is curved (optically).

Adapting nice vintage lens gave him disastrous results especially in the corners.

What to make of it? Perhaps it is not even curvature but nonperpendicular light rays.

In any case the wisdom of using A9 for adapted lenses would be, well, questionable.

Dont know whether Amount /SLT is afflicted too.