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Black and White tonality..
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Black and White tonality.. Reply with quote

Hi all,
I have a look these days on photographs of known artists and I am always astonished with their tonality black and white range.
How do they do it. How do they measure their scenes to take such great shots?
I got a light meter, if that can help but I am not sure how to use it and integrate it in my workflow.
Any take on that?
Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's going to depend a lot on the film format, the film used, the developing, and the method used for printing.

An image shot on medium format Fuji Acros and platinum printed is going to look a lot different than the exact same image shot on 35mm Ilford Pan and printed on RC paper.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly this is done at the printing stage. Type of paper and light source made a big difference. But they will also have their own secret method of developer/dilution/time for the films. Many of the great pre-war photographers didn't have particularly good meters, and many 'guesstimated' the exposure. Developer could be made up from raw chemicals back then and there were a million and one recipes. Not so easy now


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Zone System is a great thing to learn if you're battling with how to expose a scene.

Even if you have a light-meter learn Sunny-16 as well. It's good to be able to know the approximate range of exposure a camera/light meter should be giving you before you even use it. That way if they're being "tricked" by difficult lighting you won't be.

Light meters can work several different ways so as far as how to use it, make sure you first know where to point it.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus, a lot of the look is in the post production, darkroom printing is a science and an art in itself.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

themoleman342 wrote:
The Zone System is a great thing to learn if you're battling with how to expose a scene.

Even if you have a light-meter learn Sunny-16 as well. It's good to be able to know the approximate range of exposure a camera/light meter should be giving you before you even use it. That way if they're being "tricked" by difficult lighting you won't be.

Light meters can work several different ways so as far as how to use it, make sure you first know where to point it.


Hi,
I have a Gossen Luna-Pro http://cicchettis.name/SiteHistory/HistoryMeters.htm but I am not sure how to use the device.
I had a look yesterday on videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSrUjFezsA but their meters look different. They have this white globe which look very different.

In these videos they have been explaining where to turn their white circular think to get the metering. Mine has just a single hole for metering. What I am doing wrong.

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The white globe is for incident readings. It measures the light falling on a particular area of a scene. You'd point it directly at the light source (in most cases the sun if you're outdoors) and meter that way.

You're probably measuring reflected light. You'd point your light meter at the subject and take the reading. This can trick the meter if the subject is particularly dark or light so you'd have to learn how to compensate. I used to even take a grey card with me to do a quick reading.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

themoleman342 wrote:
...for incident readings. ... You'd point it directly at the light source (in most cases the sun if you're outdoors) and meter that way. ...


Actually, the meter gets pointed at the camera.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're absolutely right.

I used to use a meter with an incident attachment (not a globe) and it didn't work that well using the traditional method. It needed to be angled towards the light source. I was thinking of that and was totally wrong.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Luna Pro uses PX625 batteries. A modern battery will give inaccurate results


PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

I suppose he is talking about a Gossen Lightmeter I sent him as gift. The internal circuit was modified inserting a diode in it to low the voltage to 1.35V, permitting to use modern batteries with 1.5V. The meter has been calibrated, also by me. Checked the accuracy against my EOS FF camera, a Minolta IVF and a Pentax Spot Meter V. Pretty correct, variations in the range of 1/3 of EV, not more.

Cheers,

Renato


PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:

I have a Gossen Luna-Pro http://cicchettis.name/SiteHistory/HistoryMeters.htm but I am not sure how to use the device.
I had a look yesterday on videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSrUjFezsA but their meters look different. They have this white globe which look very different.

If your Luna-Pro doesn't have a little dome on the end that you can slide over the hole, it's missing an essential piece. On the end of the meter you'll notice there are grooves and a way for something to slide back and forth in front of the metering window. You can't just lose the dome--it's permanent. So it it's not there, someone intentionally removed it.



PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is there and it looks to be working. I will try some test shots with my digital camera on a tripod to compare and try to understand how it works
Alex


PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alaios,

You can also RTFM, it's available at the orphancameras website:

www.buktus.org

Cheers,

Renato


PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSalles wrote:
Phil,

I suppose he is talking about a Gossen Lightmeter I sent him as gift. The internal circuit was modified inserting a diode in it to low the voltage to 1.35V, permitting to use modern batteries with 1.5V. The meter has been calibrated, also by me. Checked the accuracy against my EOS FF camera, a Minolta IVF and a Pentax Spot Meter V. Pretty correct, variations in the range of 1/3 of EV, not more.

Cheers,

Renato


Thanks Renato. I tried this and can't get it apart enough to put the diode in. And the bugger wont go back together again!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSalles wrote:
Phil,

I suppose he is talking about a Gossen Lightmeter I sent him as gift. The internal circuit was modified inserting a diode in it to low the voltage to 1.35V, permitting to use modern batteries with 1.5V. The meter has been calibrated, also by me. Checked the accuracy against my EOS FF camera, a Minolta IVF and a Pentax Spot Meter V. Pretty correct, variations in the range of 1/3 of EV, not more.

Cheers,

Renato


Thanks Renato. I tried this and can't get it apart enough to put the diode in. And the bugger wont go back together again!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to find the website from where I used the instructions to do the job and will sent you via PM,

Cheers,

Renato


PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A search on google turned up two sites with recalibration info.

http://www.biasedlogic.com/index.php/calibrating-gossen-lunasix-3-lunapro/

http://www.graphic-fusion.com/lunapro.htm/

The instructions at biasedlogic show adding a diode

Phil


PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found a pdf printed doc of the old version of the first link posted, at Marek's microsite. That's what I was trying to find, now it's done,

Renato


PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original question.

There are so many variables involved. Starting with measuring the light on the scene. Then there aperture and shutter speed in the camera, film type and ISO, developing technique, time, temperature and the chemicals used. There is also scanning or printing. Fortunately, most film has enough latitude to cover small errors. Tri-X looks good for 3 stops underexposure with stand develop in an equivalent to HC-110 (see http://forum.mflenses.com/tri-x-stand-develop-iso-400-1600-and-3200-t67866.html.

I just received Stephen Anchell's "Film Developing Cookbook" I have only read a few pages so far, but I think it was worth the purchase price. Chapter one starts with the following:

"Each combination of a particular developer and film yields a unique
negative. Differences may be great or small, but there will be
differences. And it is in those differences that as photographers we
create our unique signatures.
This chapter outlines the main developer types, and suggests how to
match them to particular films, formats, and pictorial situations. There
are four key qualities to consider: sharpness, graininess, contrast, and
speed."

There is so much information that I will be making notes for my own experimentation. I need to order more film.

I think what this means is to get to know the camera and a few film / developer combinations well enough to be sure to get the photo envisioned.

Phil