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An auction to watch (unless you have boatloads of money!)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:23 pm    Post subject: An auction to watch (unless you have boatloads of money!) Reply with quote
Canon FD 85mm 1.2 SSC aspherical.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184784566984?ul_noapp=true


PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: An auction to watch (unless you have boatloads of money! Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
Canon FD 85mm 1.2 SSC aspherical.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184784566984?ul_noapp=true


Collector's item. Will see how much it goes in the end.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have this exact lens, although mine is in much better condition. The price seems about right, given its condition, although you never can tell with an auction.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: An auction to watch (unless you have boatloads of money! Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:
jamaeolus wrote:
Canon FD 85mm 1.2 SSC aspherical.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184784566984?ul_noapp=true


Collector's item. Will see how much it goes in the end.


Stupid question: What's so special about that lens? Early SN?

S


PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am not sure why they are so sought after but I have been watching ebay "Canon aspherical lens" for quite some time. The 85 /1.2 very rarely come up and always before with very high BIN prices. I have not ever seen one come up for auction.


PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steve, I think a bit of a history lesson is in order. Before the advent of L glass, Canon achieved L-like, or fluorite, properties by grinding aspherical shapes into what I'm assuming is the primary objective of a lens, that is, its largest outside element. Far as I know, there were only two -- the 85mm f/1.2 Aspherical SSC and the 55mm f/1.2 Aspherical SSC.

The 85/1.2 Asph differs with the later L version, not only in the glass and the shape of it, but also the Asphericals are breechlock whereas the L lenses are New FD. But perhaps a more important difference between the two is the Aspherical version has 9 aperture blades, whereas the L version has 8. Some say that the additional blade gives the Aspherical version smoother bokeh.

I suspect it is this difference in aperture blade count which is what makes the old Aspherical version so desirable. But that's just a guess on my part.

As I mentioned above, I own a copy of the 85/1.2 Aspherical. I do not own and I never have owned an L version, so I can't compare the differences between the two. I will say, however, that my 85/1.2 Aspherical is critically sharp, even wide open, its bokeh have a creamy quality to them, and that its CAs are very well controlled. It is a spectacular lens.



Canon F-1, 85/1.2, Kodak Elite Chrome 100:



NEX 7 @ ISO 100:


100% crop of above





PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
I have this exact lens, although mine is in much better condition. The price seems about right, given its condition, although you never can tell with an auction.

I would say $600-$700 based on condition.
I bought my near mint copy a few years ago for $1200 and had to search a year on eBay, I don't know what's happening with the Aspherical's....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265064102719
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174604137395

The 55/1.2 AL was prior to the Aspherical and has always been super rare and expensive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184770401043
But what the Fffffffff is going on with the 55 Aspherical?
They were going for $1000 for mint copies...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174717955948
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124573536471
I traded my 55/1.2 Aspherical about a year ago thinking it was $1200 at most. Sad
Even the 24/1.4 Aspherical, I bought mine for $700 in similar shape to the one below... crazy.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174604131255
The 24-35 Aspherical and the non-Aspherical 55/1.2's doesn't seem to have changed price at all...

Is it because of the Canon R cameras? Hmmm I'm confused.
I honestly couldn't tell you what this lens will sell for.


PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two more pre-L/breech-lock aspherical lenses:


  • FD 24mm 1:1.4 SSC Aspherical (EDIT: corrected aperture size, was 1:1.2)
  • FD 24-35mm 1:3.5 SSC Aspherical


There have been multiple versions of the aspherical 55mm 1:1.2: Chrome nose vs. black nose, marked “AL” vs, “Aspherical”, SSC vs. non-SSC. Not sure inhowfar optical construction is different. Canon Museum lists 3 different ones. I have seen more than 3 variants on ebay over time. But in that price range you can never be sure it's as it once left the factory.

Some guys still missing to the party:



I have got another FD 55mm 1:1.2 SSC Aspherical I would be willing to sell or trade. PM me if interested.

Last edited by fdlenses on Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
...
I bought my near mint copy a few years ago for $1200 and had to search a year on eBay, I don't know what's happening with the Aspherical's....
...


I think this is what's happening to the prices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Il_l3tu6Q
The similarities between the Aspherical FDs and the Canon K35 cine lenses...


PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know if that is why the aspherical are so sought after, but there is only one sold example on ebay and it was a BIN, 5815 dollars. So I would be surprised if this goes for less than 3000.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Steve, I think a bit of a history lesson is in order. Before the advent of L glass, Canon achieved L-like, or fluorite, properties by grinding aspherical shapes into what I'm assuming is the primary objective of a lens, that is, its largest outside element.

So I may answer with a bit of a technical lesson Wink
"Fluorite properties" are used to reduce (or nearly eliminate) the chromatic aberrations, back then usually for tele lenses.
Aspherical lenses were mainly used for reducing spherical aberrations (1.2/85mm, 1.2/55mm) or to reduce distortion (3.5/24-35mm and 3.5/20-35mm). Günter Richter writes in his book "Canon F-1" (Heering Verlag, Seebruck 1975) that the technology used by Canon for producing aspherical lenses was developped in the US and later adapted by Canon. No further detail is given.

cooltouch wrote:

The 85/1.2 Asph differs with the later L version, not only in the glass and the shape of it,

Are there any reliably references to that, or is it just an urban myth?

cooltouch wrote:

but also the Asphericals are breechlock whereas the L lenses are New FD. But perhaps a more important difference between the two is the Aspherical version has 9 aperture blades, whereas the L version has 8. Some say that the additional blade gives the Aspherical version smoother bokeh.
I suspect it is this difference in aperture blade count which is what makes the old Aspherical version so desirable. But that's just a guess on my part.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

cooltouch wrote:

As I mentioned above, I own a copy of the 85/1.2 Aspherical. I do not own and I never have owned an L version, so I can't compare the differences between the two. I will say, however, that my 85/1.2 Aspherical is critically sharp, even wide open, its bokeh have a creamy quality to them, and that its CAs are very well controlled. It is a spectacular lens.

Back when I was in highschool, the nFD 1.2/85mm L was the ultimative dream lens of the day, to me at least. Recently I bought a mint example, straight out of a collector's shelve, with boxes and everything. The lens is really a beatiful beast, an focsuing is smooth as silk. However, comparing it to the Minolta AF 1.4/85mm and the Minolta MD 2/85mm, the Canon 1.2/85mm L is not extraordinary. As you have said, CAs are well controlled (slightly better than the two Minoltas), but the bokeh of the MinAF 1.4/85mm is as creamy as that of the 1.2/85mm L. And the other aberations, namly astigmatism, are better corrected with the Minolta lenses. Ah yes, that's not just anectdotal impressions - I have compared these lenses side by side on 24 MP FF and 43 Mp FF.

Same for the Canon nFD 1.2/50mm L vs Minolta MD 1.2/50mm: Canon L certainly isn't better than the Minolta MD (also compared side-by side). Minolta did have aa aspherical MD 1.2/50mm prototype, but quite reasonaby decided it was not worth the pain. Canon, however, did (mis?)use the ASPHERICAL for marketing purposes, and it really was a success. Fluorite is another story, the Canon Fluorite lenses of the early 1970s really were much better than the corresponding Minolta lenses. And faster, of course - but that's another story.

S


PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
I don't know if that is why the aspherical are so sought after, but there is only one sold example on ebay and it was a BIN, 5815 dollars. So I would be surprised if this goes for less than 3000.


Maybe two years ago ther was a FD 1.2/55mm ASPHERICAL and a FD 1.2/85mm ASPHERICAL for sale here in Switzerland. They both together went for about CHF 900.--. Should have bought them ...

S


PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="fdlenses"]Two more pre-L/breech-lock aspherical lenses:


  • FD 24mm 1:1.2 SSC Aspherical
  • FD 24-35mm 1:3.5 SSC Aspherical

I wish it was f1.2, but sadly, only f1.4.

Quote:

I have got another FD 55mm 1:1.2 SSC Aspherical I would be willing to sell or trade. PM me if interested.

Sooo tempting, but I assume you want more than I'm will to pay at this time.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: An auction to watch (unless you have boatloads of money! Reply with quote
...

Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

cooltouch wrote:

The 85/1.2 Asph differs with the later L version, not only in the glass and the shape of it,

Are there any reliably references to that, or is it just an urban myth?


I'd assume the optical construction is identical.


  • Compare the diagrams below.
  • In the 1981 publication the diagram was taken from, Canon calls the New FD 85mm 1:1.2 L still “world's first aspherical telephoto lens”. One would expect they'd emphasize their efforts for making the lens even better if they had actually changed something.
  • I have compared the breech-lock and the New FD version side by side: The distance from the back lens surface to the front lens surface is the same (given the 0.1mm accurary I was able to achieve).






Context of above diagrams:





PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I find that irritating. Is this some kind of scam.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
flaviomaia wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
...
I bought my near mint copy a few years ago for $1200 and had to search a year on eBay, I don't know what's happening with the Aspherical's....
...


I think this is what's happening to the prices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Il_l3tu6Q
The similarities between the Aspherical FDs and the Canon K35 cine lenses...


It's definitely the cine/video guys that are driving the prices up for FD gear. A mate of mine who is a video guy and knows I have some FD stuff asked me if any was for sale recently on behalf of another cameraman he was working with.

It's spreading too. The 24/1.4 L has already gone stratospheric, since it's less common and the AL is super-rare. There aren't so many 55AL and 85AL lenses outside collections at the best of times, so all logic says that similar FDn lenses will go up too. For that reason, I'm trying to tie up a few loose ends in my FD set. For instance a 50L & 85L bought recently where I possibly paid a bit over the odds for 50 balanced by a price for the 85 which may not come around again too soon.

On the plus side; Contax Zeiss lens prices are getting lower (sadly not the 21/2.8 Distagon) as they go out of fashion.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: An auction to watch (unless you have boatloads of money! Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
jamaeolus wrote:
Canon FD 85mm 1.2 SSC aspherical.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184784566984?ul_noapp=true


The auction was pulled and all the bids were canceled.


Or perhaps an offer was accepted...


PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fdlenses wrote:
stevemark wrote:

cooltouch wrote:

The 85/1.2 Asph differs with the later L version, not only in the glass and the shape of it,

Are there any reliably references to that, or is it just an urban myth?


I'd assume the optical construction is identical.


Thanks for all those images! I had seen the corresponding lens sections for the FD 1.2/85mm ASPHERICAL in my "Canon F-1" book by Günther Richter (Heering 1975), and for the nFD 1.2/85mm L in the contemporary "Canon Lens Book". They seem identical to me.

S


PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have such an Aspherical 85mm f/1.2, but not for sale.
But I do have an Aspherical 24mm f/1.4 too much (I have two).
I also have a spare 85mm f/1.2 L for sale.
Besides that I have a 55mm f/1.2 aspherical for sale as well (also a double).

I can not offer these in the "for sale" section but there are no rules for offering them in a thread like this one, haha.
(That "protectionist policy" is not something I really fancy on this site Wink).


PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sure most boards don't want their regular forums littered with forsale offers, and I assume you are referring to this rule
Quote:
Minimum post to open topic (sell) is 200, except if you are supporter member. On wanted subforum minimum post is 10.

It's really up to the owner of the site as to how the buy/sell forum operates, if he wants to reduce spam and scams, I welcome it as it's better for us all.
You only have 45 more posts to go.


PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
"I can not offer these in the "for sale" section but there are no rules for offering them in a thread like this one, haha.
(That "protectionist policy" is not something I really fancy on this site Wink)."


If I hadn't made that comment, nobody would have been disturbed by the fact that I mentioned I have those lenses for sale. Not even you.
"FDlenses" and your reaction to his "offer" clearly proofs this.

So, ain't you the lucky one that we have rules that protect you against people like me (and "FDlenses")...
But luckily, thanks to those same rules, within 45 posts there is no more risk that I am a spammer or scammer...

We are even more lucky that people like you defend these "protectionist rules" for all of us. For the greater good...
Maybe you should ask yourself who and what these rules really protect...


PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lucse wrote:
Quote:
"I can not offer these in the "for sale" section but there are no rules for offering them in a thread like this one, haha.
(That "protectionist policy" is not something I really fancy on this site Wink)."


If I hadn't made that comment, nobody would have been disturbed by the fact that I mentioned I have those lenses for sale. Not even you.
"FDlenses" and your reaction to his "offer" clearly proofs this.

So, ain't you the lucky one that we have rules that protect you against people like me (and "FDlenses")...
But luckily, thanks to those same rules, within 45 posts there is no more risk that I am a spammer or scammer...

We are even more lucky that people like you defend these "protectionist rules" for all of us. For the greater good...
Maybe you should ask yourself who and what these rules really protect...


No, please enlighten us. Try this crap on in the Canon or Pentax forums you're likely to find out. Mflenses.com is not a buy/sell forum per se. The rules are there to protect the naive from the unscrupulous, to provide some level of trust. Some references are typically required, such as ebay id, or ID in another forum.


PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Haha, why doesn't it surprise me that it is you, once again, who feels the need to react to my post, trying to make a big deal out of it?

What "crap" are you referring to?

Talking about crap-behavior. Don't you have to raise some more 10-year old threads from the dead, just for the fun of it?

I don't think a newcomer would ever be allowed to do so on any other site without being reprimanded for it by the admins..
A newcomer would not even be allowed to do so on this site either, for that matter...

"The rules are there to protect the naive from the unscrupulous"... And you are the naive one, I suppose? Hahaha.


PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lucse wrote:
Haha, why doesn't it surprise me that it is you, once again, who feels the need to react to my post, trying to make a big deal out of it?

What "crap" are you referring to?

Talking about crap-behavior. Don't you have to raise some more 10-year old threads from the dead, just for the fun of it?

I don't think a newcomer would ever be allowed to do so on any other site without being reprimanded for it by the admins..
A newcomer would not even be allowed to do so on this site either, for that matter...

"The rules are there to protect the naive from the unscrupulous"... And you are the naive one, I suppose? Hahaha.
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