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Alternatives to the olympus 35 rc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a look on all the nice suggestions.
I think the two that fit what I need is the
QL 17 GIII
and the
Minolta Hi-Matic 7 Sii

the reason I am picking those two are:

-Full manual control If I want
-the lens rings (aperture, shutter speed, focusing) do not seem that much stacked or have small levers. In my olympurs 35 rc my major pain what that when I was chaning aperture I was moving accidendtally the focus ring too
-both cameras seem to have very good lenses and fast apertures.

I am not sure on their size. Olympurs 35 rc was the ideal size and I can not understand how larger these cameras might be or not.
That is all for now
Alex


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
I have the Olympus 35 SC Rangefinder which I got by accident really, it was in a kit of of other cameras. But it is a great camera with a very good reputation. It seems to be well made and works well, but mine does look hardly used.

Another small rangefinder that I have used a lot in the past is my Minolta Hi Matic F, which is auto exposure. It's got a lovely 38 / 2.7 lens and is very easy to use. It's popular with street photographers, but still cheap.

If you want a good compact, I have a box full that I'm trying to get rid of. There's some good ones in there, I can make a list if you want.


Thank you Lloydy. I would like to look at that list if you don't mind. Will you put it with your cameras for sell?

tb_a wrote:
uddhava wrote:
tb_a wrote:
Small cameras like the Olympus 35 RC are always a compromise.

Could you explain? I am thinking about getting a fixed lens rangefinder and I am considering a compact also.

Of course, compared to SLRs or RF system cameras (like Leica or Voigtlaender), those mini RF 35mm cameras are a compromise in terms of both quality and possibilities. Even an old Russian RF camera like a Zorki with interchangeable lenses beats every of those mini cameras in terms of picture quality. Models like e.g. a Yashica Electro 35 (45mm/F1.7) are not bad at all but also quite heavy and bulky.
The smaller the camera the less precisely it will work. Also the used mini lenses are not really state of the art and the light metering systems are rather average. All that result in more bad pictures for the waste. That's at least my experience and I have a quite big collection of RF cameras from micro to maxi. You have to set priorities whether portability or quality is the more important feature.


I have a Zorki and a Kiev which I like, but I was thinking of getting a fixed lens rangefinder (mainly Japanese)
but not necessarily a compact one. I have heard some of them performed well. I also notice there are a lot of
German rangefinders. In general there are a lot of old rangefinder cameras. Here I am seeing Voigtlander CLR's,
Minolta Hi-matics, Yashica Minister D, 35 Electro, a Belmira, etc...


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
After using my Minolta HiMatic 7sII for quite a long I have sold my Oly 35RC. Far better lens and without that silly distortion the little oly produces.
What I don't like on my HiMatic is that the shutter button goes a long way until it trips the shutter.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uddhava wrote:

I have a Zorki and a Kiev which I like, but I was thinking of getting a fixed lens rangefinder (mainly Japanese)
but not necessarily a compact one. I have heard some of them performed well. I also notice there are a lot of
German rangefinders. In general there are a lot of old rangefinder cameras. Here I am seeing Voigtlander CLR's,
Minolta Hi-matics, Yashica Minister D, 35 Electro, a Belmira, etc...


If size is not your biggest concern I would definitely recommend the Minolta Hi-Matic 7SII AKA Revue 400 SE (both identical made by Cosina).
It's much smaller than the Yashica Electro 35 but not as small as the Olympic ones and is still made in metal and therefore also more heavy than e.g. the Olympus XA made of plastic. However it's a real RF camera with full manual control where you are setting the time manually and the corresponding aperture could be seen in the viewer. Time setting around the lens (B, 1/8 to 1/500) and automatic aperture from F1.7 to F16. Focus is done by a lever on the left side of the lens and goes from 0.9 m to infinity by only approx. 30 degrees turn of the lever. Focus control as usual in the viewer. There is also a flash sync connector and a middle contact for flash usage. There is also a aperture setting when manual flashes are used. The shutter release can take any conventional cable release. A mechanical self timer is located on the front. All in all a decent camera with nearly all necessary features. The lens takes 49mm filters and the light sensor is in front of the lens which enables the correct metering including filter when used. ASA setting from 25 to 800. Copal shutter. The optical quality is not bad either (40mm/F1.7). It takes normal 1.5V battery 675px which is easily available.
Instruction Manuals:
http://www.cameramanuals.org/minolta_pdf/minolta_hi-matic_7sii.pdf
http://www.cameramanuals.org/pdf_files/revue_400se.pdf


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about other versions of the Hi-matic? Like a plain 7 or 9?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uddhava wrote:
What about other versions of the Hi-matic? Like a plain 7 or 9?


Sorry, that you have to find out yourself. I have only the recommended model because it was always considered to be the best one and I believe also the latest of the MF "real" ones. So all other models are somehow a compromise and I don't like compromises. Wink

For further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_Hi-Matic


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
uddhava wrote:

I have a Zorki and a Kiev which I like, but I was thinking of getting a fixed lens rangefinder (mainly Japanese)
but not necessarily a compact one. I have heard some of them performed well. I also notice there are a lot of
German rangefinders. In general there are a lot of old rangefinder cameras. Here I am seeing Voigtlander CLR's,
Minolta Hi-matics, Yashica Minister D, 35 Electro, a Belmira, etc...


If size is not your biggest concern I would definitely recommend the Minolta Hi-Matic 7SII AKA Revue 400 SE (both identical made by Cosina).
It's much smaller than the Yashica Electro 35 but not as small as the Olympic ones and is still made in metal and therefore also more heavy than e.g. the Olympus XA made of plastic. However it's a real RF camera with full manual control where you are setting the time manually and the corresponding aperture could be seen in the viewer. Time setting around the lens (B, 1/8 to 1/500) and automatic aperture from F1.7 to F16. Focus is done by a lever on the left side of the lens and goes from 0.9 m to infinity by only approx. 30 degrees turn of the lever. Focus control as usual in the viewer. There is also a flash sync connector and a middle contact for flash usage. There is also a aperture setting when manual flashes are used. The shutter release can take any conventional cable release. A mechanical self timer is located on the front. All in all a decent camera with nearly all necessary features. The lens takes 49mm filters and the light sensor is in front of the lens which enables the correct metering including filter when used. ASA setting from 25 to 800. Copal shutter. The optical quality is not bad either (40mm/F1.7). It takes normal 1.5V battery 675px which is easily available.
Instruction Manuals:
http://www.cameramanuals.org/minolta_pdf/minolta_hi-matic_7sii.pdf
http://www.cameramanuals.org/pdf_files/revue_400se.pdf


which of the two is smaller? Can you also confirm me when you turn the dials for aperture, shutter speed and focus can you change each one independently? In my olympus 35 rc my problem was that when I turned aperture I was also moving the focus ring (and I was losing my current focus point).

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:

which of the two is smaller? Can you also confirm me when you turn the dials for aperture, shutter speed and focus can you change each one independently? In my olympus 35 rc my problem was that when I turned aperture I was also moving the focus ring (and I was losing my current focus point).


I dont't know whether I understand your question correctly. I don't know the details of the Olympus 35 RC.
The Minolta and the Revue are IDENTICAL, that means that the only difference is the brand and the name written on the camera and nothing else; it's one and the same camera produced by Cosina with two different inscriptions. Maybe Cosina produced this camera also for somebody else. I don't know. It's size is 115 x 77 mm (just measured), so it's also rather small compared to other RF cameras of that time. Maybe the Olympus is even a little bit smaller. I simply don't know as I don't have it. My Olympus XA is smaller.
However, neither the movement of the time ring around the lens nor the movement of the aperture is in any way affecting the focus ring as the focus ring is only moved by a lever left side of the lens. So the focus will stay as it is if you change the time setting for automatic adjustment of aperture setting. That's the way the camera is designed. Obviously the Olympus works the other way round that you have to change the aperture setting to adjust the time automatic. The manual aperture setting is primarily for the use of manual flash lights or for fully manual exposure. If you look into the manuals you will see how it works.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uddhava wrote:
What about other versions of the Hi-matic? Like a plain 7 or 9?


A few years ago, I participated in a send-a-camera-around-the-world project over at the Rangefinder Forum. When you got the camera, you'd load it up with film, go out and shoot a roll or two, then post your results at the forum, and then box the camera up and send it to the next person on the list.

The camera that was used for this project I participated in was a Minolta Hi-Matic E. Unlike the Hi-Matic 7's, the E was an auto-only camera. All you could do with it was set the ISO, focus, and shoot. It handled everything else. At first, I felt really leery about trusting this little camera to deliver well-exposed photos, but when I got my first roll of film back, it removed all doubt.

Without a doubt, the nicest thing about the "E" was its 40mm f/1.7 lens. It produced remarkably sharp photos. I was shooting Kodak 200 film, an OK emulsion I suppose, but I must admit the camera and that film got along well.





Now, if I were to buy a Hi-Matic, I'd go for one of the 7s, because they have manual control of shutter speeds as an option, at least. They also have either a 45mm or 40mm f/1.7 or f/1.8 lens, so they're great for low light stuff, and maybe even halfway decent bokeh -- who knows? I think the 7sII looks the coolest, though, especially in black.

By the way not only was the Minolta Hi-Matic 7sII marketed as the Revue 400SE as Thomas has mentioned, but it was also sold as the Konica Auto S3, the Prinz 35ER, and the Vivitar 35ES.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
alaios wrote:

which of the two is smaller? Can you also confirm me when you turn the dials for aperture, shutter speed and focus can you change each one independently? In my olympus 35 rc my problem was that when I turned aperture I was also moving the focus ring (and I was losing my current focus point).


I dont't know whether I understand your question correctly. I don't know the details of the Olympus 35 RC.
The Minolta and the Revue are IDENTICAL, that means that the only difference is the brand and the name written on the camera and nothing else; it's one and the same camera produced by Cosina with two different inscriptions. Maybe Cosina produced this camera also for somebody else. I don't know. It's size is 115 x 77 mm (just measured), so it's also rather small compared to other RF cameras of that time. Maybe the Olympus is even a little bit smaller. I simply don't know as I don't have it. My Olympus XA is smaller.
However, neither the movement of the time ring around the lens nor the movement of the aperture is in any way affecting the focus ring as the focus ring is only moved by a lever left side of the lens. So the focus will stay as it is if you change the time setting for automatic adjustment of aperture setting. That's the way the camera is designed. Obviously the Olympus works the other way round that you have to change the aperture setting to adjust the time automatic. The manual aperture setting is primarily for the use of manual flash lights or for fully manual exposure. If you look into the manuals you will see how it works.


Revue 400se looks way cheaper.. I wonder why if it is identical. Btw on this youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_gJhnQlttI
revue 400 se is also reported as konica s3 clone

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:

Revue 400se looks way cheaper.. I wonder why if it is identical. Btw on this youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_gJhnQlttI
revue 400 se is also reported as konica s3 clone


That Youtube video is not exactly correct. Both the Revue and the Konica are rebadged Minolta Hi-Matic 7sII's -- as I mentioned in my above post. BTW, in my recent reading up on the Minolta Hi-Matics, I haven't come across any information that would indicate they were built by Cosina. The Hi-Matic models were first introduced by Minolta in 1962, after which they went through various modifications and changes. Not saying they weren't built by Cosina, but in the several websites I visited that reviewed the Hi-Matic 7s, Cosina wasn't mentioned.

The Hi-Matic was a long lived line, lasting all the way until 1982. I have an '81 vintage Hi-Matic AF2 that was given to me by a guy who claimed it no longer worked. All it needed was new batteries. Cool


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The best small sized rangefinder cameras are the Olympus 35RC and the Minolta Himatic 7sII. Next come the Canonet QL17 G-III and QL19. The rest might be small sized but none of them offer the features of these cameras.
Olympus XAs are fully automatic cameras with a simple CDs meter that gets tricked quite often.
Of course, for the financially cool people there are newer higher end rangefinder cameras that offer a lot more (Nikon 35ti, Contax, etc).


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:

That Youtube video is not exactly correct. Both the Revue and the Konica are rebadged Minolta Hi-Matic 7sII's -- as I mentioned in my above post. BTW, in my recent reading up on the Minolta Hi-Matics, I haven't come across any information that would indicate they were built by Cosina. The Hi-Matic models were first introduced by Minolta in 1962, after which they went through various modifications and changes. Not saying they weren't built by Cosina, but in the several websites I visited that reviewed the Hi-Matic 7s, Cosina wasn't mentioned.
The Hi-Matic was a long lived line, lasting all the way until 1982. I have an '81 vintage Hi-Matic AF2 that was given to me by a guy who claimed it no longer worked. All it needed was new batteries. Cool


I have it from here http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Minolta_Hi-Matic_7sII and other sites (most probably German ones) which I do not remember yet. Revue was a brand name of "Foto Quelle" Germany and Austria. It's therefore more easy to find it in my region of the world.

However, as I wanted to have the very cool looking black version which was only found in Revue branding I went for Revue instead of Minolta. I did make a comparison at least between the Minolta and the Revue model and can definitely say that they are identical. The Revue is even the better one as it features additionally a flash sync box on the left side of the camera which is obviously missing in the Minolta version. The rings for the camera belt are also located a little bit different on both models, where the Revue version is also winning here for my taste. But that's definitely all about the differences.

No other Minolta Hi-Matic is looking like and operating exactly like the 7sII and it is more than unlikely that Minolta produced only this model for some other distributers and brands too. I would not bet my eyes on Cosina but actually it doesn't matter anyway.

If you are interested in this model just grab any of them. They all will deliver exactly the same pictures. That's for sure.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
I did make a comparison at least between the Minolta and the Revue model and can definitely say that they are identical.

Another branding for the same camera is Vivitar 35ES.
It might be easier to find that one outside the "Revue market" Smile
Nice compact camera with good and fast lens indeed.
Some facts:
http://mattsclassiccameras.com/vivitar_35es.html

Last edited by Minolfan on Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is my "Minolta":



Sorry for the quick and dirty picture. It was btw. taken with my Ricoh and a Jupiter 8 lens from 1962 (50mm/F2 M39) fully open. Wink
Obviously the camera needs some cleaning too...
Battery is still OK, altough I haven't used the camera since ages...


PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
zanxion72 wrote:
After using my Minolta HiMatic 7sII for quite a long I have sold my Oly 35RC. Far better lens and without that silly distortion the little oly produces.
What I don't like on my HiMatic is that the shutter button goes a long way until it trips the shutter.


Distortion? I love the lens on the HiMatic 7sII, Vivitar ES.

RUSS
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