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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: 24mm lens comparison (Minolta/Pentax/Tokina) |
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tb_a wrote:
Today I've compared my 24mm/F2.8 SLR lenses on my Ricoh GXR-M:
Minolta AF / Tokina RMC / Minolta MD (version MD III) / Pentax K SMC
All pictures shot WO at F2.8 in order to show the worst case performance and each picture is followed by a 100% crop from the very right side.
Minolta AF
Tokina RMC
Minolta MD
Pentax SMC
IMHO the Minolta MD is best, the Tokina is a positive surprise and the Pentax is worst.
However, if stopped down the differences disappear and latest at F8 you won't be able to differentiate those lenses; i.e. they are all very nice and sharp performers from edge to edge. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Raxar
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 226
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Raxar wrote:
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
I am very pleased to see this test as I have a Hoya HMC 2.8/24 in as new condition except that it's aperture blades are stuck open. I believe this lens was manufactured by Tokina and is the same lens as their RMC 24mm. I will put it to the top of my repair list. _________________ "I've got a Nikon camera, I like to take a photograph" - Paul Simon |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013 Posts: 308 Location: EU
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
Very nice performance from Tokina. Question remains, would it perform so good on a FF too? |
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016 Posts: 298 Location: London
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Excellent! Thanks _________________ Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
y wrote: |
Very nice performance from Tokina. Question remains, would it perform so good on a FF too? |
On film it was always excellent (I bought it already in the early 1980's). I am not able to test it on my FF digital camera due to mount incompatibility. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
I am not able to test it on my FF digital camera due to mount incompatibility. |
I will when I repair my Hoya branded Tokina as it has a M42 mount. _________________ "I've got a Nikon camera, I like to take a photograph" - Paul Simon |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
DigiChromeEd wrote: |
tb_a wrote: |
I am not able to test it on my FF digital camera due to mount incompatibility. |
I will when I repair my Hoya branded Tokina as it has a M42 mount. |
OK, I will instead use my Minolta AF lens which isn't bad either. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 11058 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Thanks for this.
IMHO all wide angle comparison tests are flawed.
Please, how was in-focus determined?
My own wide angle tests show field curvature can greatly magnify the slightest focus error. There can be quite a large range of "exact" focus at the center of the lens; edge focus will be worst at the ends of that focus range.
I have since wondered if a more accurate edge-focus comparison can be obtained by using the edge to focus, rather than the center? _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:02 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
Please, how was in-focus determined? |
The focus was set to the buildings in the center of the images.
visualopsins wrote: |
My own wide angle tests show field curvature can greatly magnify the slightest focus error. There can be quite a large range of "exact" focus at the center of the lens; edge focus will be worst at the ends of that focus range.
I have since wondered if a more accurate edge-focus comparison can be obtained by using the edge to focus, rather than the center |
If you set the focus by using the edge then the center may be out of focus. That's at least my experience. However, if a lens fails due to strong field curvature then I don't need it anyway. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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miran
Joined: 01 Aug 2012 Posts: 1364 Location: Slovenia
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: |
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miran wrote:
Very impressive performance by the Tokina and Minolta MD. I have the MD-II version of the Minolta (different optics) and I think it's not as good. Perhaps sharpness itself is not worse but there is much more field curvature, I think. _________________ my flickr stream |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
miran wrote: |
Very impressive performance by the Tokina and Minolta MD. I have the MD-II version of the Minolta (different optics) and I think it's not as good. Perhaps sharpness itself is not worse but there is much more field curvature, I think. |
Well, the Tokina was my only 24mm lens for decades as I couldn't afford to buy the Minolta one those times.
When I finally got my Minolta MD lens a couple of years ago I've tried to sell the Tokina one and I didn't get even 30 Euros then. So I kept it till date. Nowadays the average selling price is already almost 100 Euro for that lens (Ebay). So actually I'm lucky that I didn't sell it those days.
Indeed, the MD III is an outstanding lens. I'm really happy to have it. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 11058 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:53 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
Please, how was in-focus determined? |
The focus was set to the buildings in the center of the images. |
I was asking how that was accomplished, ie, optical viewfinder, digital viewfinder, digital viewfinder magnified, cued by focus indicators or using eyesight, etc.. And, if lens focus ring was turned to bring from infinity to closer, or vice versa, was that same method used for each lens.
tb_a wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
My own wide angle tests show field curvature can greatly magnify the slightest focus error. There can be quite a large range of "exact" focus at the center of the lens; edge focus will be worst at the ends of that focus range.
I have since wondered if a more accurate edge-focus comparison can be obtained by using the edge to focus, rather than the center |
If you set the focus by using the edge then the center may be out of focus. That's at least my experience. However, if a lens fails due to strong field curvature then I don't need it anyway. |
Yes, my experience also. Of course usual to stop down to increase dof to bring both into best focus at once.
Lens curvature not due to too shallow dof? _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:57 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
I was asking how that was accomplished, ie, optical viewfinder, digital viewfinder, digital viewfinder magnified, cued by focus indicators or using eyesight, etc.. And, if lens focus ring was turned to bring from infinity to closer, or vice versa, was that same method used for each lens. |
OK, I used the optional digital viewfinder of my Ricoh GXR-M. The camera has a fantastic focus aid (magnification and "sparkling" edges) as the M-module was developed for the exclusive use of manual focus lenses. It was done manually for each and every shot at the same point within the picture (building in the center). This must be done like this because some of the lenses/adapter combinations tend to focus beyond infinity. Only when using genuine Leica M-mount (or M39/LTM) lenses I can trust the scale on the lens; i.e. I would be able to set to infinity without further control. However, in this test only adapted lenses have been used. And yes, the same method was used for every lens.
visualopsins wrote: |
Yes, my experience also. Of course usual to stop down to increase dof to bring both into best focus at once.
Lens curvature not due to too shallow dof? |
Well, therefore I mentioned that this test shows the worst case scenario with open aperture and relatively shallow DOF. In other words: If stopped down the corners would improve. I would not recommend to use open aperture for infinity landscape pictures anyway. I never do this myself for normal landscape shooting in order to get maximum DOF and quality.
Therefore my conclusion was that all of the used lenses of this test case are capable to deliver good and sharp picture in real practice:
Quote: |
... if stopped down the differences disappear and latest at F8 you won't be able to differentiate those lenses... |
I simply skipped the step to show all of those stopped down pictures. You have to trust me a little bit in that respect. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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