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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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 Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 11:16 am Post subject: Nikkor ai 135mm f/3.5 vs Canon nFD 135mm f/3.5 |
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caspert79 wrote:
I was curious how the Canon holds up to my current favourite 135mm: the Nikkor ai 135mm f/3.5.
First an infinity test:
 InfinityComparisonNikkorAi13535vsCanonNFD13535 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Wide open, the Nikkor seems to do a bit better in terms of resolution and contrast, both in the center and in the corners. The corner performance of the Nikkor is remarkable, and probably the best I've seen in any 135mm vintage lens yet, with near perfectly sharp corners wide open. When stopping down, the center contrast of the Canon becomes a bit better than the Nikkor's. @ f/5.6 and smaller, the corner resolution of the Nikkor is perfect on this 42+ mp sensor. The Canon never reaches the same corner performance.
Then, bokeh:
 BokehComparisonNikkorAi13535vsCanonNFD13535 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Both lenses do a good job when it comes to bokeh, but the Nikkor's seems slightly softer. The Nikkor is a bit sharper wide open, but when stopping down, the Canon's contrast is slightly better.
Both lenses have a built-in hood. which is quite handy. While the Canon is lighter than the Nikkor (325 gr vs 409 gr), the Nikkor has significantly better build quality. Operation of the aperture ring is quite bit smoother with the Nikkor. Of course there is also an older Canon version with better build quality, but it weights about 650 grams.
Of course this lens test is quite limited, and doesn't take into account flare resistance, CA's etc. |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
thank you for your hardwork, i don´t have nikkor 135mm, but i do have a couple of nFD 135mm f2,8 , both of them with haze affected elements. I did try one of these lenses and results seem to be impressive though, so i´m not sure how good should they be withought issues. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| kiddo wrote: |
| thank you for your hardwork, i don´t have nikkor 135mm, but i do have a couple of nFD 135mm f2,8 , both of them with haze affected elements. I did try one of these lenses and results seem to be impressive though, so i´m not sure how good should they be withought issues. |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
By the way, the Canon nFD 135/3.5 should handle direct light pretty good; it didn’t really test this with the Nikkor yet. |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
i chose FD over nFD for reliability over less weight (50mm 1.4 and 85mm) and i really like both of them ; i was interested to get the 2.5 FD version for portraits, but having vivitar CF 135mm in FD mount, i´m not sure that would make sense too much. These shots you do on 3.5 lenses do make sense for who ever need a landscape lens with less weight (8-11hrs hiking with Min Apo 200mm 2.8 it´s not the smartest choice). Before i was using c/y zeiss 135mm f2.8 as my best lens on that field, so i wonder how would this lens compare with these 3.5 lenses . |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 4065
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
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I just repaired the aperture of my Nikkor Ai 2.8/135mm, so finally (during the next weekend) I could compare the relevant 2.8/135mm lenses from the best known manufacturers around 1975-1985:
* Canon nFD 2.8/135mm
* Leica R 2.8/135mm (2nd computation)
* Mamiya Sekor SX 2.8/135mm and Sekor E 2.8/135mm
* Minolta MC-X 2.8/135mm [6/5], MD-I 2.8/135mm [4/4] and Minolta MD-III 2.8/135mm [5/5]
* Nikkor Ai (K) 2.8/135mm
* Olympus Zuiko OM 2.8/135mm
* Yashica ML 2.8/135mm
* Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/135mm
Interested?
_________________
www.artaphot.ch |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| kiddo wrote: |
| i chose FD over nFD for reliability over less weight (50mm 1.4 and 85mm) and i really like both of them ; i was interested to get the 2.5 FD version for portraits, but having vivitar CF 135mm in FD mount, i´m not sure that would make sense too much. These shots you do on 3.5 lenses do make sense for who ever need a landscape lens with less weight (8-11hrs hiking with Min Apo 200mm 2.8 it´s not the smartest choice). Before i was using c/y zeiss 135mm f2.8 as my best lens on that field, so i wonder how would this lens compare with these 3.5 lenses . |
The c/y Zeiss 135/2.8 should be about the best vintage (mf) 135/2.8 out there, but i don’t have one myself. The Nikkor ai 135/3.5 is probably the best 135 I’ve tested so far (at least at the tests I threw at it), and f/3.5 still gives me plenty of bokeh. |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
¨should be the best¨ it works until proven the otherway, anyway, your nikon lens seems to show excellent results, i assume it should be the last version, right? depending on what portraits, even zeiss f2.8 is way too sharp lol, it´s not only about the oof |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 4065
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| kiddo wrote: |
| ¨should be the best¨ it works until proven the otherway, anyway, your nikon lens seems to show excellent results, i assume it should be the last version, right? depending on what portraits, even zeiss f2.8 is way too sharp lol, it´s not only about the oof |
Yep, that's why I like lenses like the nFD 2/135mm, the MD-III 2/135mm and the Nikkor AiS 2/135mm for portraits (especially b/w).
Very nice rendering wide open, and smooth bokeh with all three lenses at f2!
S
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| kiddo wrote: |
| ¨should be the best¨ it works until proven the otherway, anyway, your nikon lens seems to show excellent results, i assume it should be the last version, right? depending on what portraits, even zeiss f2.8 is way too sharp lol, it´s not only about the oof |
Mine is the ai, not sure if there’s an ais as well? |
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Vintage_Photographer
Joined: 10 Jun 2024
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Vintage_Photographer wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
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I just repaired the aperture of my Nikkor Ai 2.8/135mm, so finally (during the next weekend) I could compare the relevant 2.8/135mm lenses from the best known manufacturers around 1975-1985:
* Canon nFD 2.8/135mm
* Leica R 2.8/135mm (2nd computation)
* Mamiya Sekor SX 2.8/135mm and Sekor E 2.8/135mm
* Minolta MC-X 2.8/135mm [6/5], MD-I 2.8/135mm [4/4] and Minolta MD-III 2.8/135mm [5/5]
* Nikkor Ai (K) 2.8/135mm
* Olympus Zuiko OM 2.8/135mm
* Yashica ML 2.8/135mm
* Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/135mm
Interested? |
I'd be interested to see how the Mamiya (Rolleinar) stacks up against the others.
_________________
Current gear list:
Mamiya 645 TL Pro with 80mm and 110mm Sekor C, Rolleiflex SL35 with Rollei HFT 50mm/1.8, Rolleinar 135/2.8, 200/3.5, Pentacon 28/2.8 and Horizont 35/2.8, Minolta SRT100X, Rokkor 35-70mm f/3.5, Rokkor 100-300mm f/5.6.
Fuji X-E2 and X-T4 with Fuji 18-55 AF, 18-135 AF, TTArtisans 27/2.8 AF, 7.5/2 Fisheye, 35/1.4, 7Artisans 18/6.3, Samyang 12mm/2 AF, Tamron SP90 (on Nikon adapter), Ilford Sportsman, Zeiss IKon Contina II and Zeiss Ikoflex 1 TLR. |
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Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020
Posts: 1211
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Doc Sharptail wrote:
While the nikkor is the sharper lens, the Canon does rendering things in "sweet" long sunrays light that the nikkor does differently.
One of the few things I like about Canon.
IIRC, the cover shot on Bob Seger's Against the Wind album was shot with a Canon 135.
-D.S.
_________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| Vintage_Photographer wrote: |
| stevemark wrote: |
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
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I just repaired the aperture of my Nikkor Ai 2.8/135mm, so finally (during the next weekend) I could compare the relevant 2.8/135mm lenses from the best known manufacturers around 1975-1985:
* Canon nFD 2.8/135mm
* Leica R 2.8/135mm (2nd computation)
* Mamiya Sekor SX 2.8/135mm and Sekor E 2.8/135mm
* Minolta MC-X 2.8/135mm [6/5], MD-I 2.8/135mm [4/4] and Minolta MD-III 2.8/135mm [5/5]
* Nikkor Ai (K) 2.8/135mm
* Olympus Zuiko OM 2.8/135mm
* Yashica ML 2.8/135mm
* Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/135mm
Interested? |
I'd be interested to see how the Mamiya (Rolleinar) stacks up against the others. |
I’d definitely found it interesting to see a comparison. My Mamiya starts very good wide open, but central contrast drops considerably from f/5.6 and smaller. Don’t know if it’s just my copy.
I haven’t tested most of these 135/2.8, except the Nikkor and Mamiya. The Nikkor is good, but not exceptional imo. The 135/3.5 performs better. |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
|
I just repaired the aperture of my Nikkor Ai 2.8/135mm, so finally (during the next weekend) I could compare the relevant 2.8/135mm lenses from the best known manufacturers around 1975-1985:
* Canon nFD 2.8/135mm
* Leica R 2.8/135mm (2nd computation)
* Mamiya Sekor SX 2.8/135mm and Sekor E 2.8/135mm
* Minolta MC-X 2.8/135mm [6/5], MD-I 2.8/135mm [4/4] and Minolta MD-III 2.8/135mm [5/5]
* Nikkor Ai (K) 2.8/135mm
* Olympus Zuiko OM 2.8/135mm
* Yashica ML 2.8/135mm
* Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/135mm
Interested? |
probably that would be one of the most complete challenge between the big brands , i still admit f3.5 might be the best way to go for less weight and who knows? maybe better whole image in some case? there is the general rule that there is no bad 135mm, but i do not agree with all being the same, and higher MP digital sensors require good optics for sharpness over the entire image |
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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020
Posts: 345
Location: the Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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connloyalist wrote:
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8. |
If you live anywhere near Zoetermeer I can loan you mine.
Regards, Christine |
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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020
Posts: 345
Location: the Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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connloyalist wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
|
I just repaired the aperture of my Nikkor Ai 2.8/135mm, so finally (during the next weekend) I could compare the relevant 2.8/135mm lenses from the best known manufacturers around 1975-1985:
* Canon nFD 2.8/135mm
* Leica R 2.8/135mm (2nd computation)
* Mamiya Sekor SX 2.8/135mm and Sekor E 2.8/135mm
* Minolta MC-X 2.8/135mm [6/5], MD-I 2.8/135mm [4/4] and Minolta MD-III 2.8/135mm [5/5]
* Nikkor Ai (K) 2.8/135mm
* Olympus Zuiko OM 2.8/135mm
* Yashica ML 2.8/135mm
* Zeiss CY Sonnar 2.8/135mm
Interested? |
Yes, that does sound like an interesting comparison.
As for the Olympus OM 2.8/135, it might make a difference which generation of lens you use for the test. I suspect (!) that one where the focal length is not preceded by "f=" will perform the best, followed closely or perhaps identically to one marked "MC". I call these "Gen 4" and "Gen 3", respectively. To my knowledge, the difference between generations 1, 2 and 3, 4 is in the coatings.
Regardless though, I expect other lenses in your list to do better than the OM.
Regards, C.[/i] |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| connloyalist wrote: |
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8. |
If you live anywhere near Zoetermeer I can loan you mine.
Regards, Christine |
Let’s first see what Stephan comes up with. But I’m in that area for my work once a while so definitely possible ! |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 4065
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 12:19 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
I'll add an Eastern German 2.8/135 as well ... And maybe the Tokina RMC ...
Sadly no Pentax A 2.8/135 here ..
EDIT:
Really rainy weather here, therefore no testing this weekend!
Since during the next week I'll work in Austria and Zurich, the proposed test of 2.8/135mm lenses is delayed  - sorry ...
S
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2024 6:56 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Surprised how expensive the Pentax-A 135mm f/2.8 is on Ebay. I guess it has to do with dSLR compatibility. |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6950
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:04 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I think overall, I prefer the Nikkor.
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Casual attendance these days |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
I have an extra Canon nfd 135/3.5 here with an aperture that won’t shut. Otherwise in good shape. If anybody is interested I can send it for shipping costs only (EU only please to save me the paperwork). If anybody is interested please pm me. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 4065
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| caspert79 wrote: |
In general, nFD lenses are pretty good optically but I’ve never tried the nFD 135/2.8.
|
I just repaired the aperture of my Nikkor Ai 2.8/135mm, so finally (during the next weekend) I could compare the relevant 2.8/135mm lenses from the best known manufacturers around 1975-1985:
..
Interested? |
I did run the repective test yesterday; processing the data will take some time, but there are a few surprises (as well as many lenses behaving as expected).
Twenty 135mm lenses compared:
* Canon nFD 2.8/135mm
* Konica Kexanon AR 2.5/135mm
* Leica Elmarit R 2.8/135mm (II)
* Mamiya Sekor SX 2.8/135mm
* Mamiya Sekor E 2.8/135mm (same computation as Sekor CS 2.8/135mm)
* Minolta Rokkor MC-II 2.8/135mm [6L]
* Minolta Rokkor MC-X 2.8/135mm [6L]
* Minolta Rokkor MC-X 2.8/135mm [4L] (same computation as MD-I)
* Minolta MC Celtic 2.8/135mm (strange 5L computation likely NOT built by Minolta, and soon replaced by a genuine Minolta Celtic 2.8/135)
* Minolta MD-III 2.8/135mm [5L] (same computation as MD-II)
* Minolta AF 2.8/135mm
* Nikon Nikkor-Q Auto 2.8/135mm
* Nikon Nikkor K/Ai 2.8/135mm
* Olympus Zuiko OM 2.8/135
* Pentacon 2.8/135mm MC (M42, late 1970s; same computation as Meyer Orestor 2.8/135mm)
* Sigma XQ 2.8/135mm (aperture stuck wide open, thus only at f2.
* Tamron Adaptall-2 2.5/135mm
* Yashica ML 2.8/135mm C (same computation as Tokina RMC 2.8/135mm)
* Zeiss Oberkochen CY Sonnar 2.8/135mm
* Zeiss Jena MC Sonnar 3.5/135mm (M42, late 1970s)
Results will be published soon in a separate thread.
S
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
I’m very curious. Thanks for the immense work!
Last edited by caspert79 on Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
I expect zeiss c/y on top for infinity , but i am really curious about nFD and sekor EF , probably surprise would be olympus and Leica? |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
I think the modest Sonnar 135/3.5 will do pretty good. |
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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020
Posts: 345
Location: the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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connloyalist wrote:
| caspert79 wrote: |
| I think the modest Sonnar 135/3.5 will do pretty good. |
Might well be. I have the older version (Sonnar 135/4.0) and I think it is outstanding.
Regards, C. |
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