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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 646
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 Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 9:30 pm Post subject: Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 5.5 cm f/4.5 (enlarging lens?) |
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simple.joy wrote:
I only found a pretty old thread (with missing images) on this lens, so I thought it might be worth it to create a new one. This small lens - a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 1:4,5 f=5,5 cm with the Nr.1981109 - came in pretty sizeable metal mount, which I would suspect to be from an enlarger. According to the Nr. it could be from around 1937, it is uncoated and obviously marked in cm.
I found the following information in the Zeiss Archive:
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Das Tessar 1:4.5 vereinigt mit großer Lichtstärke innerhalb eines großen Feldes eine ganz besonders hohe Bildschärfe und Klarheit, so dass die Aufnahmen einer starken nachträglichen Vergrößerung fähig sind. Das Tessar ist ganz unsymmetrisch gebaut. Bei seiner Ausarbeitung wurde davon abgesehen, der Vorder- oder Hinterlinse für sich allein die Eigenschaften eines selbständigen Objektivs auch nur im bescheidensten Maße zu geben. Das Bestreben war ausschließlich darauf gerichtet, das Doppelobjektiv als Ganzes zu möglichst vollkommenen Leistungen zu befähigen. Ob man das Tessar 1:4.5 oder 1:6.3 bevorzugt, beurteilt man nach folgenden Eigenschaften: Das Tessar 1:4.5 stellt eine doppelt so hohe Lichtstärke zur Verfügung wie das Tessar 1:6.3. Bei den Tessar 1:6.3 ist dafür, gleiche Blenden vorausgesetzt, der ausnutzbare Bildwinkel etwas grösser. Dagegen spielt bei dieser Auswahl keineswegs, wie man hier und da irrtümlich annimmt, die Schärfentiefe eine Rolle, denn das Tessar 1:4.5 weist, sobald man es auf 1:6.3 abblendet, außer der gleichen Lichtstärke auch genau die gleiche Schärfentiefe auf, wie das Tessar 1:6.3 oder andere gut korrigierte Objektive der gleichen relativen Öffnung und Brennweite. Wo man auf größte Lichtstärke den Hauptwert legt und eine genügend feste Kammer hat, deren Stirnbrett oder Verschluss die Anbringung des etwas größeren Tessars 1:4.5 zulässt, soll man dieses wählen.
Die optischen Eigenschaften des Tessar 1:4.5/5.5 sind: größte relative Öffnung von 1:4.5 bei einer Brennweite von 5.5 cm. Das Objektiv kann in alle Fassungen gefasst werden und wird für die Bildgröße von 4 cm x 4 cm empfohlen. |
The last sentence mentions that it's "recommended" for the format of 4x4 cm, which could suggest that it actually covers slightly more.
It seems like a pretty unremarkable lens, even for its time, but I'm curious regardless, because there are not many mentions of this lens online. I also found a reference to the use of lenses with these specs in stereo-cameras (Verascope, Heidoscop). But that's about all I know for now.
Does anyone here know if the mount is indeed from an enlarger and which manufacturer/particular series of enlarger it might be from?
It could be a nice lens to adapt, but I haven't yet tried to remove it, because I'm not sure if it's possible to still use it without the big metal mount. I also don't want to do any harm to it, if it's better to leave it in there. I would certainly appreciate any information!
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Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020
Posts: 1216
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Doc Sharptail wrote:
I'm no expert on any kind of lens.
Most of my enlargers had lenses that went onto a board that clip mounted under the head.
All had some manner of showing aperture selection.
I don't know about a 5.5 cm with a hood that lengthy- would it not vignette to a serious extent?
It would be a semi-wide angle at 4 x 4 format...
-D.S.
_________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11061
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:02 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Is there a photo from the rear? Some indication of diameter measurement would also be useful. If it is an enlarger lens, it should simply unscrew from the "hood". Does the lever actuate the diaphragm?
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
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M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:12 am Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
| Doc Sharptail wrote: |
I'm no expert on any kind of lens.
Most of my enlargers had lenses that went onto a board that clip mounted under the head.
All had some manner of showing aperture selection.
I don't know about a 5.5 cm with a hood that lengthy- would it not vignette to a serious extent?
It would be a semi-wide angle at 4 x 4 format...
-D.S. |
Thanks for your input. The metal mounting tube indeed has a lever for changing aperture and a fairly big display of which aperture is selected, fitting for being on an enlarger. I don't think there's any vignetting caused by it, seems wide enough for a 5.5 cm lens.
| visualopsins wrote: |
| Is there a photo from the rear? Some indication of diameter measurement would also be useful. If it is an enlarger lens, it should simply unscrew from the "hood". Does the lever actuate the diaphragm? |
Thank you. Here's a photo from the rear:
The lever does actuate the diaphragm. The diameter of the whole rear of the tube is around 55-57 mm
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Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020
Posts: 1216
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Doc Sharptail wrote:
| simple.joy wrote: |
| The metal mounting tube indeed has.... a fairly big display of which aperture is selected, fitting for being on an enlarger. |
Including a photo of said display would have simplified matters a great deal for us un-initiated types. 
-D.S.
_________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
| Doc Sharptail wrote: |
| simple.joy wrote: |
| The metal mounting tube indeed has.... a fairly big display of which aperture is selected, fitting for being on an enlarger. |
Including a photo of said display would have simplified matters a great deal for us un-initiated types.
-D.S. |
Indeed - that would have been a good idea. I‘ve used it for this though:
https://flic.kr/p/2qaAUcH
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Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020
Posts: 1216
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Doc Sharptail wrote:
| simple.joy wrote: |
Indeed - that would have been a good idea. |
Just for those that have no desire to navigate flicker, here is the image that could have, and should have been shown here.
-D.S.
_________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 12:50 am Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
| Doc Sharptail wrote: |
| simple.joy wrote: |
Indeed - that would have been a good idea. |
Just for those that have no desire to navigate flicker, here is the image that could have, and should have been shown here.
-D.S. |
Thanks! I was limited to mobile, where - to my knowledge - it wasn‘t possible to include it unfortunately.
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11061
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 12:51 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Thanks for the mount view~ Not an enlarging lens imho. I think from a piece of scientific equipment. Possibly an oscilloscope -- the flared part looks like i would fit a 4"-6" CRT... I think you're correct not to try to separate the lens, but to mount it as is somehow.
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020
Posts: 1216
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Doc Sharptail wrote:
| visualopsins wrote: |
| Thanks for the mount view~ Not an enlarging lens imho. I think from a piece of scientific equipment. Possibly an oscilloscope -- the flared part looks like i would fit a 4"-6" CRT... I think you're correct not to try to separate the lens, but to mount it as is somehow. |
I've seen that hook mount before- probably on older studio lights * I think * .
That aperture lever is a pretty good example of well thought out engineering.
-D.S.
_________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
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Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020
Posts: 1216
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Doc Sharptail wrote:
| simple.joy wrote: |
Thanks! I was limited to mobile, where - to my knowledge - it wasn‘t possible to include it unfortunately. |
Not trying to be mean spirited- just a bit confused on the way the post has unfolded.
-D.S.
_________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 10:50 am Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
| visualopsins wrote: |
| Thanks for the mount view~ Not an enlarging lens imho. I think from a piece of scientific equipment. Possibly an oscilloscope -- the flared part looks like i would fit a 4"-6" CRT... I think you're correct not to try to separate the lens, but to mount it as is somehow. |
Thank you! You're right - I've seen Oscilloscope lenses in somewhat similar looking mounts, but never with a lever like that and also not with a lens that old... it's still a possibility though.
I was also thinking about some of the microfilm cameras Zeiss has made - like the Dokumator series. But so far I wasn't able to find any reference to a lens like that being used in one of those and I've also never seen such a mount on those.
| Doc Sharptail wrote: |
I've seen that hook mount before- probably on older studio lights * I think * .
That aperture lever is a pretty good example of well thought out engineering.
-D.S. |
Many thanks! Indeed, the mount is more reminiscent of studio lights and their accessories. It seems very well made indeed.
| Doc Sharptail wrote: |
Not trying to be mean spirited- just a bit confused on the way the post has unfolded.
-D.S. |
No worries. It's my fault for being so confused... I'm having a hard time getting enough sleep at the moment, so that doesn't help with concentration.
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
Here are a couple of shots, taken with the Tessar:
 How I miss the music... by simple.joy, on Flickr
It doesn't like to shoot into the light (not surprising I guess, given that it is uncoated) and is a bit low contrast SOOC in general, but it has a nice rendering, which reminds me of older Leitz lenses, like the Elmar or the Voort.
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 16664
Location: Weinheim, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:54 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
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COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
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Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
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