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Mysterious Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 12:58 pm    Post subject: Mysterious Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 Reply with quote
A couple of months ago I found an Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 in Germany. I've spent weeks trying to find any information about this lens, but I just can't find anything.

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The Glaukar f/3.1 series is well documented and was released around 1910. I just find it strange all other Emil Busch lenses I've tried to find information on is relatively easy, and I would think the Glaukar f/2 would garner some attention due to the high speed of the lens.

#4


Even old lens directory sources doesn't mention a Glaukar f/2 lens (from 1939 source).

The only source I could actually find was a third party store in Berlin selling a Glaukar 8cm f/2 lens in 1936. "A lens collector’s Vade Mecum" doesn't give any answers either.

#5


What's also strange is that most of the Glukar 7.5cm f/2 lenses I've seen being sold online have had the same shutter mechanism. Which is an ilex Universal shutter which seems to have been mainly used on ilexs' own lenses. Why would a German lens maker use an American shutter instead of a German shutter?

#6


I opened the lens to clean the optics, and found out it was some weird reversed Tessar design. Unfortunately the front group is glued to the lens barrel, so I can't be sure if there's 2 or 3 elements in this group.

From what I can tell there was only made 80mm and 75mm Glaukar f/2 lenses. Apparently Emil Busch stopped making photographic lenses in 1927, and I suspect this Glaukar f/2 series to be newer. So maybe the Glaukar f/2 was originally developed for projection and not photographic purpose, and someone adapted alot of them with a shutter mechanism somewhere in the 1930s?

If anyone have any information I'd love to know.
I wrote a small article about this lens, and I'd like to expand it:
https://espensusort.no/2024/07/emil-busch-glaukar-7-5cm-f-2/

Some images I took with the Glaukar f/2 on Fujifilm GFX:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 Reply with quote
ostenespen wrote:
A couple of months ago I found an Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 in Germany. I've spent weeks trying to find any information about this lens, but I just can't find anything.

The Glaukar f/3.1 series is well documented and was released around 1910. I just find it strange all other Emil Busch lenses I've tried to find information on is relatively easy, and I would think the Glaukar f/2 would garner some attention due to the high speed of the lens.

Even old lens directory sources doesn't mention a Glaukar f/2 lens (from 1939 source).


According to "Kadlubeks Objektiv Katalog" ("Lens catalogue"; 2nd edition 2009) the 2/80mm was "f. Fliegerkamera" ("for airplane camera"). The 75mm version isn't mentioned, and no additional information is given.

ostenespen wrote:
What's also strange is that most of the Glukar 7.5cm f/2 lenses I've seen being sold online have had the same shutter mechanism. Which is an ilex Universal shutter which seems to have been mainly used on ilexs' own lenses. Why would a German lens maker use an American shutter instead of a German shutter?

Emil Busch was active both in Rathenow (D) and London (GB). And an airplane camera, even if handheld, may well have been made for military purposes.


ostenespen wrote:
I opened the lens to clean the optics, and found out it was some weird reversed Tessar design. Unfortunately the front group is glued to the lens barrel, so I can't be sure if there's 2 or 3 elements in this group.

Count the reflexes. Internal surfaces give a weak reflexion, outer surfaces a pretty strong one.


ostenespen wrote:

From what I can tell there was only made 80mm and 75mm Glaukar f/2 lenses. Apparently Emil Busch stopped making photographic lenses in 1927, and I suspect this Glaukar f/2 series to be newer. So maybe the Glaukar f/2 was originally developed for projection and not photographic purpose, and someone adapted alot of them with a shutter mechanism somewhere in the 1930s?

Busch made "Fliegerkameras" at least until 1941. The one I'm aware of was equipped with a 2/125mm Xentar, using 7x9cm roll film.

S


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 Reply with quote
ostenespen wrote:
A couple of months ago I found an Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 in Germany. I've spent weeks trying to find any information about this lens, but I just can't find anything.

The Glaukar f/3.1 series is well documented and was released around 1910. I just find it strange all other Emil Busch lenses I've tried to find information on is relatively easy, and I would think the Glaukar f/2 would garner some attention due to the high speed of the lens.

Even old lens directory sources doesn't mention a Glaukar f/2 lens (from 1939 source).


According to "Kadlubeks Objektiv Katalog" ("Lens catalogue"; 2nd edition 2009) the 2/80mm was "f. Fliegerkamera" ("for airplane camera"). The 75mm version isn't mentioned, and no additional information is given.

ostenespen wrote:
What's also strange is that most of the Glukar 7.5cm f/2 lenses I've seen being sold online have had the same shutter mechanism. Which is an ilex Universal shutter which seems to have been mainly used on ilexs' own lenses. Why would a German lens maker use an American shutter instead of a German shutter?

Emil Busch was active both in Rathenow (D) and London (GB). And an airplane camera, even if handheld, may well have been made for military purposes.


ostenespen wrote:
I opened the lens to clean the optics, and found out it was some weird reversed Tessar design. Unfortunately the front group is glued to the lens barrel, so I can't be sure if there's 2 or 3 elements in this group.

Count the reflexes. Internal surfaces give a weak reflexion, outer surfaces a pretty strong one.


ostenespen wrote:

From what I can tell there was only made 80mm and 75mm Glaukar f/2 lenses. Apparently Emil Busch stopped making photographic lenses in 1927, and I suspect this Glaukar f/2 series to be newer. So maybe the Glaukar f/2 was originally developed for projection and not photographic purpose, and someone adapted alot of them with a shutter mechanism somewhere in the 1930s?

Busch made "Fliegerkameras" at least until 1941. The one I'm aware of was equipped with a 2/125mm Xentar, using 7x9cm roll film.

S


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 Reply with quote
ostenespen wrote:
A couple of months ago I found an Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 in Germany. I've spent weeks trying to find any information about this lens, but I just can't find anything.

#1


If anyone have any information I'd love to know.
I wrote a small article about this lens, and I'd like to expand it:
https://espensusort.no/2024/07/emil-busch-glaukar-7-5cm-f-2/


Very interesting lens, great write-up and wonderful images as usual! Really appreciate your excellent work.

Hartmut Thiele's book "Große Nummernsammlung Photoobjektive" has the lens in it. According to the book (which I can absolutely recommend - so go and get a copy if you can!) it was likely made between 1909 and 1925. It's not specified how many of those lenses were made, but it doesn't seem to have been manufactured in very big numbers as there are only two entries (meaning two production runs). One has the additional information: "im V" which could mean "Verschluss" = shutter, the other one says "Leica S39".


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Emil Busch Glaukar 7.5cm f/2 Reply with quote
Quote:

Hartmut Thiele's book "Große Nummernsammlung Photoobjektive" has the lens in it. According to the book (which I can absolutely recommend - so go and get a copy if you can!) it was likely made between 1909 and 1925. It's not specified how many of those lenses were made, but it doesn't seem to have been manufactured in very big numbers as there are only two entries (meaning two production runs). One has the additional information: "im V" which could mean "Verschluss" = shutter, the other one says "Leica S39".


Thank you for this valuable information, I'll have to get this book.
I'm a bit confused why Emil Busch would make a L39 version of this lens before the first Leica model with support for interchangeable lenses. Wasn't this in 1930 with the Leica I (C)? Even if not many were made, if it was made before 1925 I would imagine Emil would write about their lens. It could have potentially been as famous as the other early high aperture lens series like Ernostar (f/1.8), Astro Tachar (f/1.8), Kino-Plasmat (f/2) etc.

#1


Maybe Thiele is writing about these Leica adapted lenses, which I suspect are later adaptions by a third party (insane asking price btw, I paid like 200 eur for mine).

I also contacted and talked to the owner of this Glukar 7.5cm f/2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/144ilss/75mm_f2_mystery_camera/

I did some research on the photo store marked on the camera and it was active around the 1920-30s in Berlin. It seems like Liesengang was involved with this store(?).


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Last edited by ostenespen on Wed Aug 07, 2024 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ostenespen wrote:


Thank you for this valuable information, I'll have to get this book.
I'm a bit confused why Emil Busch would make a L39 version of this lens before the first Leica model with support for interchangeable lenses. Wasn't this in 1930 with the Leica I (C)? Even if not many were made, if it was made before 1925 I would imagine Emil would write about their lens. It could have potentially been as famous as the other early high aperture lens series like Ernostar (f/1.Cool, Astro Tachar (f/1.Cool, Kino-Plasmat (f/2) etc.

#1


Maybe Thiele is writing about these Leica adapted lenses, which I suspect are later adaptions by a third party (insane asking price btw, I paid like 200 eur for mine).


I have no idea what S39 stands for... of course it could stand for the LTM but that's usually abbreviated L39, so it would be somewhat surprising. According to some quick research (I'm not knowledgeable on the matter) the LTM was already present in the lenses on the Leica I (non C), even though the lenses were not removable. So it's not impossible that this thread/a similar one was already in use. According to a very old catalogue I have which features the Busch-Anastigmat "Glaukar" f/3.1 that lens was available in a "Zylinderfassung" (barrel mount) for cinema-projection. Perhaps those used a Leica thread as well... but that's pure speculation as I've never looked into the whole history of L39/LTM/M39 and how it's all connected. It seems quite complicated.

Of course the (presumably later modified) model you've shown could be referenced as well, but it would be unusual for Thiele's work to just reference something like that in his work. When you get his book (or books, as there are lots of interesting ones for someone as yourself) - which you order from Hartmut Thiele directly - you could perhaps ask him about that.

The year I referenced is just an estimate, there is no production year given... it could easily be wrong!

ostenespen wrote:


I also contacted and talked to the owner of this Glukar 7.5cm f/2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/144ilss/75mm_f2_mystery_camera/

I did some research on the photo store marked on the camera and it was active around the 1920-30s in Berlin. It seems like Liesengang was involved with this store(?).


You have to be careful there. The store is called "Leisegang", the lens manufacturer "Liesegang", the former seems to have been based in Berlin, the latter was from Düsseldorf as far as I know.

Leisegang: https://www.leisegang.de/index.php?id=130&L=1

Liesegang: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liesegang (You have to click on the first link: Unternehmen... Unfortunately I can't seem to link to it directly here because of the weird URL.

It's quite interesting that the Berlin based company also made cameras, but I think they're completely different corporate entities which just share a similar name. But again... that's just a quick observation, not something I know anything about.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="simple.joy"]
ostenespen wrote:


I have no idea what S39 stands for... of course it could stand for the LTM but that's usually abbreviated L39,


Schraubfassung? Schraubgewinde?

S


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="stevemark"]
simple.joy wrote:
ostenespen wrote:


I have no idea what S39 stands for... of course it could stand for the LTM but that's usually abbreviated L39,


Schraubfassung? Schraubgewinde?

S


Good thinking - that's quite possible!


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:


You have to be careful there. The store is called "Leisegang", the lens manufacturer "Liesegang", the former seems to have been based in Berlin, the latter was from Düsseldorf as far as I know.

Leisegang: https://www.leisegang.de/index.php?id=130&L=1

Liesegang: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liesegang (You have to click on the first link: Unternehmen... Unfortunately I can't seem to link to it directly here because of the weird URL.

It's quite interesting that the Berlin based company also made cameras, but I think they're completely different corporate entities which just share a similar name. But again... that's just a quick observation, not something I know anything about.


Oh, you're completely right, I didn't see that at all. I don't think this Berlin based company ever made cameras, I think back then it was normal to put their store logo directly on the cameras they sold. I feel I've seen this before.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just fyi, it won't be an inverted Tessar, just a triplet with a more complicated first element. Not unheard of, but pretty curious at this speed. There were multiple stabs at getting closer to this.
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