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Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/300mm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/300mm Reply with quote
Today I got a mint sample of the Tair-33. I've been intrigued in this lens for quite some time, but never managed to get a nice sample at a reasonable price, up to now.

First, let's look at the well known ED-IF Nikkor 4.5/300mm. Here a 100% crop from the extreme corner of the 24MP FF Sony A7II JPG. The first image was taken at f5.6, the second at f11:



Now the much underrated Mamiya Sekor C 5.6/300mm (later also sold as "ULD"), again firts at f5.6, then at f11:



Finally the Tair-33 in its newest version. First image at f5.6, second crop at f11:




It is clear that the Nikkor is well corrected in monochromatic light, especially wide open. However, it suffers from lots of lateral CAs, and stopping down decreases the general performance.

The Mamiya, not an IF lens, is one of the best vintage 300mm lenses i know. Both its general correction as well as the CA suppression is very well done. On 24MP full frame it can be used wide open without hesitation.

Finally the Tair! CAs are exceptionally well corrected (does anyone know the glass they used?), but wide open and at f5.6 the corners are still pretty much missing the details. Stopping down to f8 helps a lot, and at f11 the entire FF image is crystal clear - the best I have ever seen from a vintage 300mm lens, only comparable to the legendary Canon FL-F 5.6/300mm which has two (!) fluorite lenses in its front group.

Stephan


PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like more Tair-3, tair-33 is medoum format lens and have worse resolution, as it little brother )
I'm using photosniper kit with tair-3 and it looks pretty nice. Not pixel sharp wide open, but very good, even for pixel peeping at f8, still have enough resolution for 24mp crop sensor.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
linebrell wrote:
Looks like more Tair-3, tair-33 is medoum format lens and have worse resolution, as it little brother )
I'm using photosniper kit with tair-3 and it looks pretty nice. Not pixel sharp wide open, but very good, even for pixel peeping at f8, still have enough resolution for 24mp crop sensor.


I have been using the Tair-33 medium format lens here, as stated in the title. Same size and weight as the Canon FD 2.8/300mm Fluorite ...

Stephan


PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
linebrell wrote:
Looks like more Tair-3, tair-33 is medoum format lens and have worse resolution, as it little brother )
I'm using photosniper kit with tair-3 and it looks pretty nice. Not pixel sharp wide open, but very good, even for pixel peeping at f8, still have enough resolution for 24mp crop sensor.


I have been using the Tair-33 medium format lens here, as stated in the title. Same size and weight as the Canon FD 2.8/300mm Fluorite ...

Stephan


Oh, my fault. In Russia people often confuses with -3 and-33 types )


PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/30 Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Today I got a mint sample of the Tair-33. I've been intrigued in this lens for quite some time, but never managed to get a nice sample at a reasonable price, up to now.

First, let's look at the well known ED-IF Nikkor 4.5/300mm. Here a 100% crop from the extreme corner of the 24MP FF Sony A7II JPG. The first image was taken at f5.6, the second at f11:



Now the much underrated Mamiya Sekor C 5.6/300mm (later also sold as "ULD"), again firts at f5.6, then at f11:



Finally the Tair-33 in its newest version. First image at f5.6, second crop at f11:




It is clear that the Nikkor is well corrected in monochromatic light, especially wide open. However, it suffers from lots of lateral CAs, and stopping down decreases the general performance.

The Mamiya, not an IF lens, is one of the best vintage 300mm lenses i know. Both its general correction as well as the CA suppression is very well done. On 24MP full frame it can be used wide open without hesitation.

Finally the Tair! CAs are exceptionally well corrected (does anyone know the glass they used?), but wide open and at f5.6 the corners are still pretty much missing the details. Stopping down to f8 helps a lot, and at f11 the entire FF image is crystal clear - the best I have ever seen from a vintage 300mm lens, only comparable to the legendary Canon FL-F 5.6/300mm which has two (!) fluorite lenses in its front group.

Stephan


Well,

This comparison is not fair for the Nikon,a 24x36mm lens,versus medium format lenses,that use only their sweet spots.

And yes,Mamiya Sekor ULD 300/5.6 that I have is even better than the already decent Sekor C you presented - not a tiniest trace of CA can be found on the Sony A72.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/30 Reply with quote
shapencolour wrote:

Well,

This comparison is not fair for the Nikon,a 24x36mm lens,versus medium format lenses,that use only their sweet spots.

And yes,Mamiya Sekor ULD 300/5.6 that I have is even better than the already decent Sekor C you presented - not a tiniest trace of CA can be found on the Sony A72.


Yes, from a theoretical point it may not be fair.

In practice, however many vintage 24x36mm tele lenses do cover a larger image circle (the first Nikkor 2.8/300mm was 6x6cm, the large Leica Apo Telyt lenses cover at least the 30x45mm of the S2 ...). And - even more important: my intention was to show the capabilities of some adapted medium format lenses on the 24x36mm sensors. Some of these medium format lenses - such as the Mamiya 645 teles - are dirt cheap, not much heavier than their vintage 24x36mm counterparts, and much better.

I think it's actually quite fair to promote their qualities Wink

Stephan


PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/30 Reply with quote
shapencolour wrote:

And yes,Mamiya Sekor ULD 300/5.6 that I have is even better than the already decent Sekor C you presented - not a tiniest trace of CA can be found on the Sony A72.


Meanwhile I have both the Sekor C 5.6/300mm as well as the Sekor C 5-6/300mm ULD. Comparing them side-by-side on the 43 MP FF Sony A7RII reveals that they have exactly the same performance.

S


PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/30 Reply with quote
All of the images shown here display a heavy pink cast (yes, I've clicked on all of them).
It's distracting enough to make the entire series look bad, despite the obvious fringing of the nikkor, which is well-known.
A slightly more realistic test would use one of the quite old Nikkors for the Bronica S2, or even the equivalent later (SQ,Sq-A) Zenzanon.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/30 Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:
All of the images shown here display a heavy pink cast (yes, I've clicked on all of them).
It's distracting enough to make the entire series look bad, despite the obvious fringing of the nikkor, which is well-known.
A slightly more realistic test would use one of the quite old Nikkors for the Bronica S2, or even the equivalent later (SQ,Sq-A) Zenzanon.

-D.S.


Evening light, sunset.
Quick test back then when I got the Tair-33 and really was curious about its performance. For me it's enough; I easily can see the problems of the Nikkor (surprisingly strong fringing for an ED lens) and the Tair (low corner resolution at f4.5 ... f6.7).

By far most images these days will be shot with FF cameras; this thread was intended to show the properties of some underrated medium format lenses, compared to the well known ED-IF Nikkor 4.5/300mm.

S


PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Tair-33 vs Nikkor ED-IF 4.5/300mm vs Mamyia Sekor 5.6/30 Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Evening light, sunset.
Quick test back then when I got the Tair-33 and really was curious about its performance. For me it's enough; I easily can see the problems of the Nikkor (surprisingly strong fringing for an ED lens) and the Tair (low corner resolution at f4.5 ... f6.7).

By far most images these days will be shot with FF cameras; this thread was intended to show the properties of some underrated medium format lenses, compared to the well known ED-IF Nikkor 4.5/300mm.

S


I thought it might be something like that.
While on the subject, there seems to be an idea floating around from recent reading that I/F lenses are prone to fringing, regardless of make. I need to dig around a bit to find out more about this. I've been looking for the mechanical information for the internal focus system of the 200 f4 micro, and have been unable to find much concrete evidence on what the system actually is for that lens.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found a N ULD mamiya sekor C 300mm 5.6, what does the N stand for? Thanks


PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
I found a N ULD mamiya sekor C 300mm 5.6, what does the N stand for? Thanks


No idea what it stands for, but congrats. Very nice lens, and surprisingly lightweight.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
I found a N ULD mamiya sekor C 300mm 5.6, what does the N stand for? Thanks


"N" = "New (design)". Basically a more modern looking rubber grip ...
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