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Edge blackening? What to use?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:31 pm    Post subject: Edge blackening? What to use? Reply with quote
Just got a new rescue project delivered yesterday, biggest issue being this:





The group jammed-in at an angle has been wrenched out and repositioned with no lasting damage.

I've never tried applying new 'edge blackening' (probably the wrong terminology!) so thought I'd ask what the best way of approaching this would be?

Thanks for any advice Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://polarbearcamera.com/products/lens-edge-blackening-complete-kit

For best result, you may need to remove the old ink before applying new ink.

If you have a rotation tool/table, you may give it a try. See how sigma apply the ink https://youtu.be/r5HFLkNrbIU?si=hiUIPXUO7ejCi0Tm&t=540 .


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
https://polarbearcamera.com/products/lens-edge-blackening-complete-kit

For best result, you may need to remove the old ink before applying new ink.

If you have a rotation tool/table, you may give it a try. See how sigma apply the ink https://youtu.be/r5HFLkNrbIU?si=hiUIPXUO7ejCi0Tm&t=540 .


Thanks very much Very Happy

That kit sounds ideal. I don't have a rotation tool but I guess I could rig something up with an old record player!

The existing edge blackening is pretty fragile. Looks like someone's been trying to release the stuck lens group for some time so most of it's already gone.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Check ebay Tamiya XF-69


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Check ebay Tamiya XF-69


Thanks. That would save some cash.

Have you tried it yourself?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SimonOL wrote:
kiddo wrote:
Check ebay Tamiya XF-69


Thanks. That would save some cash.

Have you tried it yourself?


Yes I did, maybe there might be some better options but not easily available as far as I know


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I posted in the newest lenses thread, but will repeat here in the dedicated thread. I've settled on Sharpie brand oil-based paint pens (not the regular markers). It gives a very dark, opaque finish, dries much faster than other paints with no later outgassing/deposition that I've ever encountered in samples I repainted years ago, fills gaps well, and is very rugged. Much better results in my experience than the Tamiya, much easier to apply, and doesn't leave behind brush marks if you apply it in concentric rings around the edge of the lens.

It, like the original blacking can be easily removed by wiping with a lens tissue/Kimwipe lightly wetted with acetone. You can also use this method to clean up any overpaintin at the edges.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It might be a good opportunity to do some before/after pics to see how much difference it makes. I have a copy of the same lens badged as soligor, from memory it suffered from a problem that was common with third party lenses then: veiling flare from aperture leaves not darkened, so it had better contrast wide open than at F/8


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
I posted in the newest lenses thread, but will repeat here in the dedicated thread. I've settled on Sharpie brand oil-based paint pens (not the regular markers). It gives a very dark, opaque finish, dries much faster than other paints with no later outgassing/deposition that I've ever encountered in samples I repainted years ago, fills gaps well, and is very rugged. Much better results in my experience than the Tamiya, much easier to apply, and doesn't leave behind brush marks if you apply it in concentric rings around the edge of the lens.

It, like the original blacking can be easily removed by wiping with a lens tissue/Kimwipe lightly wetted with acetone. You can also use this method to clean up any overpaintin at the edges.


Thanks very much for the advice!

Sharpie oil paint markers are sold here - can't find one with a thick tip at the moment but there must be one out there somewhere...


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:
It might be a good opportunity to do some before/after pics to see how much difference it makes. I have a copy of the same lens badged as soligor, from memory it suffered from a problem that was common with third party lenses then: veiling flare from aperture leaves not darkened, so it had better contrast wide open than at F/8


Thanks Alun - before & after pics are a good idea!

I didn't think Soligor rebadged the Kyoei Acall 180mm - I've only seen Tokina, Tamron and Komine derived lenses badged as Soligors in that focal length...


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://forum.mflenses.com/which-black-paint-to-use-on-lens-element-t51079.html


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
http://forum.mflenses.com/which-black-paint-to-use-on-lens-element-t51079.html


Thank you again!!

I've seen India ink mentioned before for edge blackening so I've ordered some Higgins Black Magic waterproof ink.

Tried to find Sharpie oil paint markers and can only find fine/medium versions for sale. There is one bold marker on Amazon but costs more than £40 for one marker so that's not going to happen.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FWIW, they do sell them in Walmart here in the Sates. I know the Walmart/ASDA stores in the UK were sold off to another concern recently, but it might be worth taking a look there if their inventory has remained the same.
The paint pens can sometimes be hard to find due to their popularity among graffitistas/taggers.



SimonOL wrote:
BrianSVP wrote:
I posted in the newest lenses thread, but will repeat here in the dedicated thread. I've settled on Sharpie brand oil-based paint pens (not the regular markers). It gives a very dark, opaque finish, dries much faster than other paints with no later outgassing/deposition that I've ever encountered in samples I repainted years ago, fills gaps well, and is very rugged. Much better results in my experience than the Tamiya, much easier to apply, and doesn't leave behind brush marks if you apply it in concentric rings around the edge of the lens.

It, like the original blacking can be easily removed by wiping with a lens tissue/Kimwipe lightly wetted with acetone. You can also use this method to clean up any overpaintin at the edges.


Thanks very much for the advice!

Sharpie oil paint markers are sold here - can't find one with a thick tip at the moment but there must be one out there somewhere...


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
FWIW, they do sell them in Walmart here in the Sates. I know the Walmart/ASDA stores in the UK were sold off to another concern recently, but it might be worth taking a look there if their inventory has remained the same.
The paint pens can sometimes be hard to find due to their popularity among graffitistas/taggers.



I'm not sure why (regulations?) but the Sharpie UK website doesn't have the 'art' section that appears on sharpie.com so I'm guessing the paint markers aren't supposed to be sold over here...

If I try to find a UK stockist for the bold paint markers on the sharpie.com website it states: 'WE'RE SORRY. We couldn't find any local sellers for this product.'

Google search doesn't seem to find any stockists either. Shame because it seems like the ideal solution but they're just unobtainium.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
I posted in the newest lenses thread, but will repeat here in the dedicated thread. I've settled on Sharpie brand oil-based paint pens (not the regular markers). It gives a very dark, opaque finish, dries much faster than other paints with no later outgassing/deposition that I've ever encountered in samples I repainted years ago, fills gaps well, and is very rugged. Much better results in my experience than the Tamiya, much easier to apply, and doesn't leave behind brush marks if you apply it in concentric rings around the edge of the lens.

It, like the original blacking can be easily removed by wiping with a lens tissue/Kimwipe lightly wetted with acetone. You can also use this method to clean up any overpaintin at the edges.

It seems they are used by the others too. Like 1 small
https://youtu.be/BRQFpIlX9-4?si=muozNVLg4G5Ee5_Q&t=62


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I didi an ebay search for black oil based marker and there are a number of cheap ones: toya, uni, olejoewy...
at just over 3 quid should be worth a try.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm a bit confused now. Are markers getting mixed up with paint pens?

I may well be wrong, but I thought that:

- Markers contain an oil or water base with a DYE (not very durable and prone to fading)
- Paint pens contain an oil or water base with binders and PIGMENTS (very permanent)

Did I get that wrong?


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Epoxy resin might be a good candidate too. Wink
https://www.mabuchist.co.jp/english/products/opt-sphere/bonding-sphere/en_rens_sumi.html


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to clarify, I am specifically talking about oil-base paint pens, not the regular markers


These:


NOT these:


RokkorDoctor wrote:
I'm a bit confused now. Are markers getting mixed up with paint pens?

I may well be wrong, but I thought that:

- Markers contain an oil or water base with a DYE (not very durable and prone to fading)
- Paint pens contain an oil or water base with binders and PIGMENTS (very permanent)

Did I get that wrong?


Last edited by BrianSVP on Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The bold point version(35241) may be more suitable for thicker elements.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Those type of paint pens are far more difficult to get here in the UK I think, compared to markers. I saw a few on Amazon, but mostly generic Chinese brands rather than Sharpie. The only Sharpies I could find were the fine and very fine tipped paint pens.

In art shops and stationary shops I have only ever seen the white paint pens, black ones were always dye based marker pens.

I imagine most black solutions will work fine as long as it dries very thin and the pigment carrier cures clear with a refractive index not too far away from glass. So black indian ink and black modelling paint should also work fine in theory.

The most useful information for me so far was the video where they applied lens blacking with a felt/sponge rather than with a brush.
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