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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:04 pm Post subject: Mamiya EF 50mm f/1.4 vs Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 |
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caspert79 wrote:
Bought the Olympus OM Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 after several sources praising its great quality as a landscape lens (corner to corner sharpness basically). After taking this lens with me on my holiday, I can indeed confirm that this is the case. I decided to compare the lens to my Mamiya EF 50mm f/1.4, which is also no slouch in this regard. This is performance on a 42+ mp sensor.
Infitnity Comparison by devoscasper, on Flickr
Although the Mamiya shows good detail in the corners at wide apertures (compared to most vintage lenses), the Zuiko does a better job at most aperture values. From f/8 on, the differences are small.
Very good job of the Zuiko. One thing that surprised me, is that the Zuiko's FOV is in fact wider than than the Mamiya's, because I believed the actual focal length of the Mamiya to be less than 50mm.
How does the Zuiko compare to the Mamiya when it comes to close subjects?
closefocuscomparison by devoscasper, on Flickr
The Mamiya draws close subjects sharper than the Zuiko at wider apertures. The difference becomes insignificant @f/4.
Conclusion: the Zuiko is probably my best standard lens when it comes to corner-to-corner sharpness (macro's not included). It's quite soft though at close focusing distances. In that case, I would happily grab the Mamiya.
Example image Zuiko (click for full size). It's able to capture lots of detail in landscape images.
AndlauZuiko5014145 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Example image Mamiya wide open (click for full size). With close focusing object, the lens shines @ wide apertures. Check detail in eye and hair.
DSC04028 by devoscasper, on Flickr |
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Dejan
Joined: 05 Jan 2021 Posts: 148 Location: Belgrade, Serbia
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dejan wrote:
At least with your samples Mamiya seems to be visibly better with open aperture. On the other hand, it's got strong coma even at F2. Interesting comparison, I've never even considered this Mamiya (I guess because I don't see it that often). |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1221
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
nice comparison, but i see zuiko doing pretty bad in the center of most of the apertures comparing to mamiya, indeed the corners are better on zuiko, so i wonder if it has to do with the field curvature? |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1221
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
kiddo wrote: |
nice comparison, but i see zuiko doing pretty bad in the center of most of the apertures comparing to mamiya, indeed the corners are better on zuiko, so i wonder if it has to do with the field curvature? |
zuiko is best in bokeh balls, non visible blades shape at all, nice |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
kiddo wrote: |
nice comparison, but i see zuiko doing pretty bad in the center of most of the apertures comparing to mamiya, indeed the corners are better on zuiko, so i wonder if it has to do with the field curvature? |
The Zuiko does good in the center @ infinity though. It seems soft only @ short focusing distance.
Field curvature could be a thing, but not necessarily. There are also some aberrations going on there, as already pointed out (coma). Not many vintage lenses have pixel filling sharpness in the corners on 42 mp. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
the last two photos, huh. This is probably really hard to beat. The detail is amazing. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Alun Thomas
Joined: 20 Aug 2018 Posts: 652 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Alun Thomas wrote:
It's quite surprising to see the fringing on the guy riding his bike at F2 with the Zuiko lens, I really would have expected the other dark/light edges to show it too but they don't much. I use elements like that to test for fringing, but maybe my tests aren't as well designed as they could be. |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 446
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:39 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
Dejan wrote: |
At least with your samples Mamiya seems to be visibly better with open aperture. On the other hand, it's got strong coma even at F2. Interesting comparison, I've never even considered this Mamiya (I guess because I don't see it that often). |
I noticed the nasty coma as well. So many fast 50's fall short here. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:21 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Alun Thomas wrote: |
It's quite surprising to see the fringing on the guy riding his bike at F2 with the Zuiko lens, I really would have expected the other dark/light edges to show it too but they don't much. I use elements like that to test for fringing, but maybe my tests aren't as well designed as they could be. |
It seems that the sun hits the guy harder than the other light parts of the image. |
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Ernst Dinkla
Joined: 30 Nov 2016 Posts: 391
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: Focal lengths, angles of view |
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Ernst Dinkla wrote:
Thank you for the testing. According to magazine tests the measured focal length of the Olympus OM is 52,0mm, the Mamiya EF 51,4mm. The Olympus had an SN below 700.000 so it could be that the later versions had a change in optical design and by that a shorter focal length and a wider angle of view. Just trying to find a cause for what you observed.
Interesting to see that of two Planars tested in that period, both went beyond the 5% deviation on the focal length with 52,6mm measured. _________________ Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Focal lengths, angles of view |
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caspert79 wrote:
Ernst Dinkla wrote: |
Thank you for the testing. According to magazine tests the measured focal length of the Olympus OM is 52,0mm, the Mamiya EF 51,4mm. The Olympus had an SN below 700.000 so it could be that the later versions had a change in optical design and by that a shorter focal length and a wider angle of view. Just trying to find a cause for what you observed.
Interesting to see that of two Planars tested in that period, both went beyond the 5% deviation on the focal length with 52,6mm measured. |
I will take a look at my original source images once I’m home to see whether my observation is actually valid. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
There is a little bit of play on the horizontal adjustment of my tripod, that's why the Zuiko seemed a bit wider. But now looking at the source images, the difference is almost zero.
Let's do another comparison, this time against the Minolta MD 50mm f/2, which is known to be a great landscape lens:
comparison by devoscasper, on Flickr
Excuse me for the absence of 1 crop (a passing bus blocked the center of the image). Anyway, the real importance here are the corners.
Observations:
1) The Zuiko's corner get sharper sooner; at f/4 they are about perfect on a 42+ mp sensor; at f/2.8 they are usable, which is excellent.
@ f/8, corners of both lenses are about equally sharp.
2) The images from the Minolta seem more contrasty than the Zuiko's
3) The images of the Minolta are somewhat cleaner in terms of blue fringing.
It is quite an achievement of the Zuiko to reach excellent corner-to-corner sharpness @ f/4. The question is, what is the practical benefit in this digital age?
The better landscape lens may still be the Minolta, which has better contrast and CA control. And the better all-rounder may be the Mamiya, which is much sharper when it concerns close by objects, and becomes excellent for landscapes as well once stopped down a little.
Despite the Zuiko not being a 'Swiss army knife', I think the Zuiko's special feat makes it an interesting lens for collectors. Also, its handling is very nice; build quality is excellent. |
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ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars
Joined: 03 Nov 2021 Posts: 249 Location: Austria
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote:
The website below states versions of this lens with serial numbers above 1.1 mio as the last and best iteration of the 1.4/50 Zuiko. They´re supposed to be sharper in the center, softer at edges compared to those between 1 - 1.1 mio: still excellent, slightly sharper in the corners, slightly softer in the center. Those with serial numbers below 1 mio supposedly less performant, especially those which carry the G.ZUIKO designation. Quality variations might also come into play. Best optical performance of them all at f/4.
It´s unfortunately German only, so if you find it interesting, please consider automatic translation.
https://olypedia.de/index.php?title=Zuiko_Auto-S_1:1,4/50_mm
I was just a bit puzzled by your results at close focus distance. I did quite a bit quite close to 0,45 with the Zuiko, even wide open, and always found it surprisingly good. I unfortunately don´t own a Mamiya, so I just took some of mine more interesting 50s I else had to compare (was a boring online meeting and much too late in the day anyway). So my apologies in advance for expanding this thread to a Olympus-Olympus-Nikkor-Hexanon comparison. And for the boring motive on my home office desk
The Zuiko 1.4/50 is serial number 1.162.112, so it´s the latest version built by Olympus
The Nikkor is the 1.4/50 AiS (serial number 5.314.790)
The Zuiko 1.8/50 is also the latest version, serial number on the bayonet already, reads 2.898.489
The Hexanon 1.7/50 says "3T" on the bayonet, so it´s built 06/73 serial number 7.814.821
What I actually wanted to prove (mostly to myself, I guess): I don´t see that softness in the 1.4/50 Zuiko at close focus distance. The Hexanon ist better to my eye, yes, but... Probably give your Zuiko another chance with an object that has clearly pronounced contrast on corners, I think it must have been hard to focus on that blossom.
The Mamiya looks excellent, btw. and I shall consider to get one, certainly. So please, don´t mistake that as a comparison in length I attempt to do here, eh, you know
All taken wide open.
#1 Center
#2 Edge
_________________ Cheers, Gerhard |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Thanks for your comments. Frankly I wonder if the 1.000.000 - 1.100.000 could really have sharper corners than the last series. Because it’s already extremely good, and I wonder if this has been established on a camera with 42 mp or more.
I’ve been actually really carefull with focusing the Zuiko on the close by object (did multiple series and refocused at every aperture rule out the effects of focus shift). Also, on my holidays I noticed it was not particularly sharp in this setting (unless stopped down quite a bit). Having said that, I don’t have many f/1.4 lenses to compare it to. Wide open the Mamiya is definitely much sharper (close focus) than my Petri 55/1.4. I also have a Chinon 55/1.4, but haven’t compared them. I did however compare the Mamiya against the Ttartisan 50/1.4 aspherical and it’s about equally sharp at the wide apertures.
http://forum.mflenses.com/mamiya-ef-50mm-f-1-4-vs-tt-artisan-50mm-f-1-4-asph-t84633.html
So I guess the Mamiya is a particularly sharp lens for its age, so maybe that explains the fairly big difference with the Zuiko. |
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ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars
Joined: 03 Nov 2021 Posts: 249 Location: Austria
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote:
Thank you too for these comparisons you regularly show here. They are always interesting. It´s a mild poke in the ribs for me to finally do such series with my lenses of a similar focal length and critically check pros and cons. That could finally lead to a more considered choosing for certain motives. Not that I wouldn´t know my lenses a bit, but until now, I pick a lens just out of the day´s mood or a certain feeling it could be right. Well, it´s a hobby, not that my life would depend on it
By the way, did you also look for micro contrast? I find the Zuiko excels in this regard, showing considerably more detail, especially in dark areas. If you look at the first comparison series at f2.8 and scrutinize the white blinders in the center crop, there´s some green reflection to be seen that´s a lot less pronounced in the Mamiya. The almost black bottom window left to it also shows structure from reflection in the Zuiko image that´s missing in the Mamiya.
In the crop from the edge, there´s more detail in the bush immediately to the right of the white car. Above the white car and below the blinders is structure in the almost dark area of the window pane. _________________ Cheers, Gerhard |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
Thank you too for these comparisons you regularly show here. They are always interesting. It´s a mild poke in the ribs for me to finally do such series with my lenses of a similar focal length and critically check pros and cons. That could finally lead to a more considered choosing for certain motives. Not that I wouldn´t know my lenses a bit, but until now, I pick a lens just out of the day´s mood or a certain feeling it could be right. Well, it´s a hobby, not that my life would depend on it |
Yeah, that tends to happen with many collectors. I try to see it as yet another good reason to buy another lens
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
By the way, did you also look for micro contrast? I find the Zuiko excels in this regard, showing considerably more detail, especially in dark areas. If you look at the first comparison series at f2.8 and scrutinize the white blinders in the center crop, there´s some green reflection to be seen that´s a lot less pronounced in the Mamiya. |
That's the changing lighting conditions IMO. @f/1.4, f/8 and f/11 the reflections seem more pronounced in the Mamiya image.
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
In the crop from the edge, there´s more detail in the bush immediately to the right of the white car. Above the white car and below the blinders is structure in the almost dark area of the window pane. |
I believe this is also because of changing lighting conditions. But I give you that the bush next to car looks better on the Zuiko's image, which is sharper in the corners.
To really do a reliable test, you should have controlled lighting conditions. But that's a bit like splitting hairs that are already split |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:40 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Did an additional little test to establish center sharpness wide open @ short distance:
ComparisonWideOpen by devoscasper, on Flickr
The Mamiya is the sharpest by far, followed by the Chinon. The Zuiko is in between the Petri and the Chinon. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Another image from the Mamiya @ f/1.4. Click for full size.
If you want sharpness wide open, but like the character of vintage lenses at the same time, this is a good choice.
Mamiyaportret1447 by devoscasper, on Flickr
This is how it compares to a modern lens: TTartisan 50mm f/1.4 aspherical.
TTArtisanportret1446 by devoscasper, on Flickr |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
I can't view the mamiya at 100% but the TTartisan seems have pretty good sharpness wo. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
I can't view the mamiya at 100% but the TTartisan seems have pretty good sharpness wo. |
Yeah, the TTartisan is very sharp, comparable to Leica Summilux asph. But the Mamiya is not that far off. Try the link:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/55691955@N05/eg4809GF5j
Here is the whole comparison I did earlier:
http://forum.mflenses.com/mamiya-ef-50mm-f-1-4-vs-tt-artisan-50mm-f-1-4-asph-t84633.html |
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ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars
Joined: 03 Nov 2021 Posts: 249 Location: Austria
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
Thank you too for these comparisons you regularly show here. They are always interesting. It´s a mild poke in the ribs for me to finally do such series with my lenses of a similar focal length and critically check pros and cons. That could finally lead to a more considered choosing for certain motives. Not that I wouldn´t know my lenses a bit, but until now, I pick a lens just out of the day´s mood or a certain feeling it could be right. Well, it´s a hobby, not that my life would depend on it |
Yeah, that tends to happen with many collectors. I try to see it as yet another good reason to buy another lens
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
By the way, did you also look for micro contrast? I find the Zuiko excels in this regard, showing considerably more detail, especially in dark areas. If you look at the first comparison series at f2.8 and scrutinize the white blinders in the center crop, there´s some green reflection to be seen that´s a lot less pronounced in the Mamiya. |
That's the changing lighting conditions IMO. @f/1.4, f/8 and f/11 the reflections seem more pronounced in the Mamiya image.
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
In the crop from the edge, there´s more detail in the bush immediately to the right of the white car. Above the white car and below the blinders is structure in the almost dark area of the window pane. |
I believe this is also because of changing lighting conditions. But I give you that the bush next to car looks better on the Zuiko's image, which is sharper in the corners.
To really do a reliable test, you should have controlled lighting conditions. But that's a bit like splitting hairs that are already split |
But the bush...!
No, you are right, that Mamiya is one sharp knife and no doubt about it. The comparison with the kitchen paper leaves no leeway to argue around that. I was certainly biased in my previous posts since the Zuiko is a lens I really like.
Please keep doing those comparisons, they are really interesting and always a starting point for a good discussion. _________________ Cheers, Gerhard |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
But the bush...!
No, you are right, that Mamiya is one sharp knife and no doubt about it. The comparison with the kitchen paper leaves no leeway to argue around that. I was certainly biased in my previous posts since the Zuiko is a lens I really like.
Please keep doing those comparisons, they are really interesting and always a starting point for a good discussion. |
Well, keep on liking that Zuiko, because it has some real strong points 👠|
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3928 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
The website below states versions of this lens with serial numbers above 1.1 mio as the last and best iteration of the 1.4/50 Zuiko. They´re supposed to be sharper in the center, softer at edges compared to those between 1 - 1.1 mio: still excellent, slightly sharper in the corners, slightly softer in the center. Those with serial numbers below 1 mio supposedly less performant, especially those which carry the G.ZUIKO designation. Quality variations might also come into play. Best optical performance of them all at f/4. |
I just noticed that I have one of those silver nose, "G. Zuiko" "below 1 mio" 1.4/50mm lenses ... and the Mamiya EF 1.4/50mm too. Should be interesting to compare those two
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
The website below states versions of this lens with serial numbers above 1.1 mio as the last and best iteration of the 1.4/50 Zuiko. They´re supposed to be sharper in the center, softer at edges compared to those between 1 - 1.1 mio: still excellent, slightly sharper in the corners, slightly softer in the center. Those with serial numbers below 1 mio supposedly less performant, especially those which carry the G.ZUIKO designation. Quality variations might also come into play. Best optical performance of them all at f/4. |
I just noticed that I have one of those silver nose, "G. Zuiko" "below 1 mio" 1.4/50mm lenses ... and the Mamiya EF 1.4/50mm too. Should be interesting to compare those two
S |
Yes, that would be interesting. I’m also curious about its close focus performance at wide apertures.
From another test I’ve seen on the internet the Silver Nose should at least be very good at infinity as well. |
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Ernst Dinkla
Joined: 30 Nov 2016 Posts: 391
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ernst Dinkla wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote: |
The website below states versions of this lens with serial numbers above 1.1 mio as the last and best iteration of the 1.4/50 Zuiko. They´re supposed to be sharper in the center, softer at edges compared to those between 1 - 1.1 mio: still excellent, slightly sharper in the corners, slightly softer in the center. Those with serial numbers below 1 mio supposedly less performant, especially those which carry the G.ZUIKO designation. Quality variations might also come into play. Best optical performance of them all at f/4. |
I just noticed that I have one of those silver nose, "G. Zuiko" "below 1 mio" 1.4/50mm lenses ... and the Mamiya EF 1.4/50mm too. Should be interesting to compare those two
S |
It might surprise you:
Silver Nose is roughly below Ser No 500.000 and probably all are having Lanthanum glass. _________________ Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots |
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