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Leitz Focotar 4.5/50 (Schneider made) as a cityscape shooter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:53 pm    Post subject: Leitz Focotar 4.5/50 (Schneider made) as a cityscape shooter Reply with quote
To my surprise, there is no samples in the forum taken with the 1st version of the enlarger Focotar 4.5/50. I took the lens for a walk and used it occasionally WO handheld on Sony NEX. It is a later version, with a large front glass. It works rather fine as a cityscape lens, in twilight too.

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#4 SOOC jpg


Last edited by alex ph on Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:16 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some more shots taken with the same setup in slightly brighter light, but not yet in the midday.

I suppose the lens has a special light transmission parameters. The resulting Nex jpg has a high plasticity and might be pushed quite far in exposure. Meantime quite often the colours in slightly pushed shots tend to magenta and thus need a bit more of correction. Beside this, the shapes are neat. And in some lighting conditions even SOOC jpg comes out perfectly balanced, while in some others (especially contrasty light) colour shift is more visible.

The followng shots were slightly corrected in exposure and colour.

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A simple BW conversion with exposure and contrast further pushed gives especially neat and crisp results, including portraits or portrait-like shots. The last shot is taken in twilight and glow neon lighting, then exposure and contrast are pushed quite heavily.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:


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Great shots, particularly the second set! I like this B&W image best. Seems to work really well for that. Was it stopped down?

BTW. there's a number of different Focotar 50/4.5 lenses, even besides the Schneider-made one:
https://deltalenses.com/?s=focotar+50

I've only tried mine for macro/close-ups. Unsurprisingly it's quite good there as well, although I doubt it comes close to the Focotar-2, particularly in the corners...

Compensate for feeling incomplete by simple.joy, on Flickr

Territories by simple.joy, on Flickr


PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you very much! Following Deltalenses typology, I have a Schneider made lens. Good to know. I used it wide open in the previous shots. But even the max aperture is set, the blades remain very slightly closed. I don't know if it is a feature by design (as it happens in some other enlarger lenses) or a fault of my copy which had a pretty hard working life, given its aspect.

This yours is especially crunchy! Very appealing.

simple.joy wrote:

Compensate for feeling incomplete by simple.joy, on Flickr


I finally used mine in a strong sunlight, including mid and short but not macro distance. The results are shiny.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice results of this lens!


PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Friends


PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And here is a couple of night shots, properly speaking. WO on Sony Nex. They keep the pleasing combination of neatness and mildness showed in daytime shots, even at distance.

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#2 Sooc jpeg


PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
Thank you very much! Following Deltalenses typology, I have a Schneider made lens. Good to know. I used it wide open in the previous shots. But even the max aperture is set, the blades remain very slightly closed. I don't know if it is a feature by design (as it happens in some other enlarger lenses) or a fault of my copy which had a pretty hard working life, given its aspect.

This yours is especially crunchy! Very appealing.

Thanks a lot! Yes, you're right - the blades in the Schneider-made Focotar don't open fully and I'm sure it's by design. A number of earlier Leitz enlarging lenses had a max. aperture of f/3.5, so it's likely that they limited that to f/4.5 in order to provide excellent results wide open. Limited aperture ranges are actually not uncommon in other high-grade industrial lenses, so it's usually not a bad sign.

The important thing to consider when adapting lenses like that is the blades showing up, particularly in direct light. That doesn't seem to be a problem with the Focotar 50mm f/4.5 LFE from my observation. Just tried it with a metal object in direct sunlight:

Brassentation of the key change by simple.joy, on Flickr

I would still prefer to be able to use it to f/3.5 or thereabouts, like the older Elmar/Varob designs.

alex ph wrote:

I finally used mine in a strong sunlight, including mid and short but not macro distance. The results are shiny.

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Yup - looks great! 👍


PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:
Yes, you're right - the blades in the Schneider-made Focotar don't open fully and I'm sure it's by design. ...

I would still prefer to be able to use it to f/3.5 or thereabouts, like the older Elmar/Varob designs.


Thank you for the confirmation. Me too, I'd like to use this Xeno-Focotar WO, with (I presume) slight glow around edges, an interesting effect for portrait employement.

You continue to cherish the gaze with joyfully bright and masterfully made shots. Bravo!

The lens resists pretty well to flare, including neon and halogen night lights.

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Even though in some positions towards direct sunlight you get visible strikes of stray beams affecting the IQ.

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When the light is calm and the distance is close, it is a hit without miss.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Finally an "odd" comparison confronting the Focotar to a Yashinon-DX 1.7/50. The Yashinon shots are taken some years ago.

#1 Focotar WO (f4.5) close focusing


#2 Yashinon close focusing (a similar statue)


#3 Focotar WO


#4 Yashinon at f4 or f5.6


PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting pictures! I didn't know the Focotar was produced by Schneider. Was it a Schneider design? I have a 4.5/50mm Focotar that I occsionally use for macro photos.
So were they all produced by Schneider?
Lex


PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SandroB wrote:
Interesting pictures! I didn't know the Focotar was produced by Schneider. ... So were they all produced by Schneider?


I knew that one of Focotars is made by Schneider from the text on deltalenses, related by simple.joy. Visibly, only one model is known to be in the case, the one with larger front element.

Here is another couple of shots from everyday life of a large city.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SandroB wrote:
Interesting pictures! I didn't know the Focotar was produced by Schneider. Was it a Schneider design? I have a 4.5/50mm Focotar that I occsionally use for macro photos.
So were they all produced by Schneider?
Lex


No, as far as I know only the one with the obvious large front element (17581A), as alex ph has mentioned. You can read up on that in the article in progress Mark (initiator of the deltalenses project and active here as user "16:9") has created:
https://deltalenses.com/the-leica-story/#:~:text=received%20%E2%80%98Focotar%E2%80%99%20branding.-,The,-Focotar%20Dynasty%3A%2050mm

He has done a lot more research on the matter. There are lots of 50 mm Focotars actually as you can see in the table I linked to, and then there are of course also the 60 mm, 95 mm and 100 mm versions. Most of them are pretty good actually. I've recently been quite impressed by their predecessors the Voort 9.5 cm and Varob 5 cm lenses. You can find some of my sample shots with many of these lenses in the article, if you're interested.

BTW. The Focotar (17581A) is not the only case where Leitz labeled lenses were actually made by Schneider, that's for sure. 😉


PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting information and thanks for the link. I have a stupid question: I have Focotar and years ago I wrote down a serial number,. but I can't find it back on the lens. Any suggestion where to find it?
Lex


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Never mind about the serial number, with a magnifying glass I found it again.
Lex


PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did it give you some meaningful information?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
Did it give you some meaningful information?


If you mean the number, yes, and that points to 1965 as year of production.
Lex


PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you have an idea of the changing lens IQ according the year of production?


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
Do you have an idea of the changing lens IQ according the year of production?


With regard to the Focotar 50mm, there are four optical designs packaged in eight versions during the decades-long production run. Later is better. The first generation five-element design was in production from 1952 to 1969. There was probably a coating upgrade in 1961 when Leitz switched from model 'names' to numbers. The second-generation five element Schneider lens was only produced from 1969/70 to 1974. The third generation six-element Focotar-2 ran from 1974 to 1980. The fourth generation Focotar-3 was prototyped in 1981. There's a table on this page itemising production dates for all versions: https://deltalenses.com/the-leica-story/

Leitz was unusually good at repairing and refurbishing these lenses, so you see quite a few anomalous factory-upgraded samples that have the wrong serial number for the model.

Incidentally, if anyone has a nice clean Focotar 2 or Focotar 3 to loan or sell, I'd like to update our test results based on a better sample. They're not currently included in the rankings.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Marc, for you explanation. I've read the related info on deltalenses and I already knew that Focotar-2 is considered as a step forward as compared to Focotar-1. I was wondering if the first version had variations in design affecting the IQ. Visibly not. That's also good to know!


PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:

#3 Focotar WO


This scene is so cool.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Pancolart!
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