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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:16 am Post subject: Soligor 105/2.8 vs Topcor RE 100/2.8 vs Minolta MC 100/2.5 |
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caspert79 wrote:
Here a comparison between three lenses:
1) Soligor 105mm f/2.8 (Sun version)
2) Topcor RE 100mm f/2.8
3) Minolta MC 100mm f/2.5 (last version so with MD optical scheme)
Comparisonwideopenflat by devoscasper, on Flickr
Comparisonf4flat by devoscasper, on Flickr
Comparisonf56flat by devoscasper, on Flickr
Comparisonf8flat by devoscasper, on Flickr
Conclusions:
Best sharpness wide open: Topcor and Minolta. Topcor's contrast seems best. Soligor is soft.
Best sharpness at f/4: Minolta. Soligor not soft anymore, and looks even slightly better than Topcor.
Sharpness at f/5.6 and f/8: Minolta and Soligor comparable. Topcor stays a bit behind.
Real life implications: Minolta the best alround lens of the bunch IMO: very good performance at different apertures. Corners of this lens are also best. As a portrait lens, the Topcor may have the edge because of slightly better contrast. For close subjects / smaller apertures I might choose the Soligor because of slightly nicer bokeh highlights (8 blades). It's a bit too soft for my taste wide open though. |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1412 Location: Kent, UK
Expire: 2025-05-01
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
Interesting comparison, thanks!
I only have personal experience with the Minolta 100/2.5, which has a very good reputation amongst Minolta Rokkor users. I can say that it is rather sensitive to flare if you get the sun anywhere near the frame, so a good deep hood is a must for this lens (the use of which also significantly increases contrast in general with this lens.)
The original dedicated metal screw-in hoods tend to be pricy; the latest (MDIII) version has a double-section built-in telescopic hood. _________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote: |
Interesting comparison, thanks!
I only have personal experience with the Minolta 100/2.5, which has a very good reputation amongst Minolta Rokkor users. I can say that it is rather sensitive to flare if you get the sun anywhere near the frame, so a good deep hood is a must for this lens (the use of which also significantly increases contrast in general with this lens.)
The original dedicated metal screw-in hoods tend to be pricy; the latest (MDIII) version has a double-section built-in telescopic hood. |
Yup, I've had the MDIII as well, but finally settled with an earlier type which feels better in my hand. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3952 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
Good OEM lenses rarely show any differences when it comes to center resolution. High speed lenses (f1.2 or f1.4) may be an exception though, and so are older lenses (let's say before 1960). That's why I usually publish only the corner performance ... Some wideanges however do have an inferior performance also at the image borders.
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1669
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Minolta looks eyehurtingly sharp WO, but Soligor catches up impressively, once closed down. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
alex ph wrote: |
Minolta looks eyehurtingly sharp WO, but Soligor catches up impressively, once closed down. |
From the limited experience I have with the Soligor, it seems the softness occurs mainly at close focusung distance wide open. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1669
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
I find it amazing how Sun lenses step progressively away from the bad fame of allover terrible glass they had still 5 years ago. This is one of the great advantages of this forum which is especially open to experimenting and helps the accumulation of more precise knowledge. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
The Minolta is my most used lens by a huge margin, it's so good on my Sony's whether full frame or crop, I love it.
And the Soligor / Sun is up there with my most used M42 lenses of any focal length. Considering it's age and the fact it was a budget lens back in the day it is an extraordinary lens
I have no Topcor lenses, but if this 100 / 2.8 turns up I shall buy it.
Very interesting comparison, three very different lenses that most people would group together. I like that. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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Phalbert
Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 377 Location: Namibia
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Phalbert wrote:
Could we please have a picture of the lenses? Mostly to identify the Soligor. Thanks!
Eyehurtingly sharp? That's a new level of sharpness! _________________ 🙋 My wishlist: Titan or Idaho 135/1,8 Nikon Df Nikkor 105/1,8 35/1,4 85/1,4
My dream lenses: Zuiko 180/2 Prototype Zuiko 85/1,4
Zeiss CY: 55/1,2 85/1,2
Astro Berlin 250/2 Canon EF 50/1,0 85/1,2
Nikkor 105/1,4 28/1,4
My stolen stuff: Zuiko 24/2 #106874; Zuiko 35-80/2,8 #102180; Zuiko 35/2 #119168; Zuiko 90/2 macro #102858; Zuiko x1,4 converter #102019; Tamron 17/3,5 #400567; Tamron 400/4 #80407; Soligor 135/2 #17506600 Sigma 28/1,8 #1001124 |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:28 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Phalbert wrote: |
Could we please have a picture of the lenses? Mostly to identify the Soligor. Thanks!
Eyehurtingly sharp? That's a new level of sharpness! |
This is the Soligor: https://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_2674.html# |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
as usual the biggest difference is wide open. One might argue the lower contrast and softer rendering of the Soligor is very good for portraiture. _________________ pentaxian |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Lloydy wrote: |
The Minolta is my most used lens by a huge margin, it's so good on my Sony's whether full frame or crop, I love it.
And the Soligor / Sun is up there with my most used M42 lenses of any focal length. Considering it's age and the fact it was a budget lens back in the day it is an extraordinary lens
I have no Topcor lenses, but if this 100 / 2.8 turns up I shall buy it.
Very interesting comparison, three very different lenses that most people would group together. I like that. |
I have four Topcor RE lenses - 1.8/58, 2.8/35, 2.8/135 and 5.6/200 and they are all excellent, so always well worth grabbing any you see. I recently got a rather sexy second copy of the 135 in black, much rarer than the silver version I already had, works wonderfully well on my a850. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 446
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
I still favor the Topcor for the steep fall off that makes the background softer than expected when compared to other lenses in that range. That along with how small and light it is. Very easy to carry for such optical performance. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:48 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
cbass wrote: |
I still favor the Topcor for the steep fall off that makes the background softer than expected when compared to other lenses in that range. That along with how small and light it is. Very easy to carry for such optical performance. |
Yeah it's a lovely lens. Results always look great and build quality is quite exquisite too. |
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Manichaean
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 70
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Soligor 105/2.8 vs Topcor RE 100/2.8 vs Minolta MC 100/2 |
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Manichaean wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Here a comparison between three lenses:
1) Soligor 105mm f/2.8 (Sun version)
Real life implications: Minolta the best alround lens of the bunch IMO: very good performance at different apertures. Corners of this lens are also best. As a portrait lens, the Topcor may have the edge because of slightly better contrast. For close subjects / smaller apertures I might choose the Soligor because of slightly nicer bokeh highlights (8 blades). It's a bit too soft for my taste wide open though. |
Is this Soligor|Sun related to Tokina by any chance? I have a Tokina 100mm f/2.8 and in the exterior it has some common traits with a Soligor 28mm that was sertainly made by Tokina.
Last edited by Manichaean on Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Soligor 105/2.8 vs Topcor RE 100/2.8 vs Minolta MC 100/2 |
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caspert79 wrote:
Manichaean wrote: |
caspert79 wrote: |
Here a comparison between three lenses:
1) Soligor 105mm f/2.8 (Sun version)
Real life implications: Minolta the best alround lens of the bunch IMO: very good performance at different apertures. Corners of this lens are also best. As a portrait lens, the Topcor may have the edge because of slightly better contrast. For close subjects / smaller apertures I might choose the Soligor because of slightly nicer bokeh highlights (8 blades). It's a bit too soft for my taste wide open though. |
Is this Soligor|Sun related to Tokina by any chance? I have a Tokina 100mm f/2.8 and in the exterior it has some common traits with a Soligor 28mm that was surtainly made by Tokina. |
I believe there are different versions of the Soligor 105/2.8, one of them being Tokina made, and another one being made by Sun. AFAIK not related. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3952 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
cbass wrote: |
I still favor the Topcor for the steep fall off that makes the background softer than expected when compared to other lenses in that range. That along with how small and light it is. Very easy to carry for such optical performance. |
Typical Sonnar properties
http://www.artaphot.ch/topcon-re/re-auto-topcor-lenses/485-re-auto-topcor-100mm-f28
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 446
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
I have a type so to speak. If it’s a sonnar or ultron design chances are that I will like it. Still Topcor is
more than just Sonnar or not. All their lenses perform very well wide open. Most are light and compact. All of them have excellent colors and contrast throughout the aperture range. It’s the sum of all parts. |
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John Shriver
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 Posts: 198
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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John Shriver wrote:
Always loved the 100/2.8 when my Topcon system was my primary user. (Although I love the 85/1.8 more!)
The old Camera:35 review notes that it does have field curvature, indeed that's pretty common to most of the Topcor lenses. Tradeoff they made for sharpness. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, the Topcors have a distinct look compared to many contemporaries, they must have made different tradeoffs .
As for Sonnars, they aren't associated with small size, not with that big block of glass in the middle.
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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pabeu
Joined: 25 Apr 2018 Posts: 71
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:52 am Post subject: |
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pabeu wrote:
Super Tak 105 2.8 and QBM Zeiss Sonnar 85 come to my mind as really compact Sonnars.
P6 180mm Sonnar sits on the opposite side of this. Being a huge beast.
Cheers. |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:45 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
pabeu wrote: |
Super Tak 105 2.8 and QBM Zeiss Sonnar 85 come to my mind as really compact Sonnars.
P6 180mm Sonnar sits on the opposite side of this. Being a huge beast.
Cheers. |
I don't know if that can really be called a Sonnar, but for compactness look at the original preset version. Here next to the Super-Takumar.
diagram:
_________________ pentaxian |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:50 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Here's an image with the Takumar (preset) 105mm 1:2.8
Sad kitty by The lens profile, on Flickr _________________ pentaxian |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3141 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
John Shriver wrote: |
Always loved the 100/2.8 when my Topcon system was my primary user. (Although I love the 85/1.8 more!)
The old Camera:35 review notes that it does have field curvature, indeed that's pretty common to most of the Topcor lenses. Tradeoff they made for sharpness. |
What review is that, do you have a link? |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 446
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
John Shriver wrote: |
Always loved the 100/2.8 when my Topcon system was my primary user. (Although I love the 85/1.8 more!)
The old Camera:35 review notes that it does have field curvature, indeed that's pretty common to most of the Topcor lenses. Tradeoff they made for sharpness. |
I have not measured them for curvature, but I will take your word for it as you have to make a tradeoff somewhere. Most older lenses have some curvature. Still even with curvature most of their lenses were corner to corner sharp from f/8-f/11 for landscape use. So the curvature was not so extreme as not to be overcome by DOF. The lenses they delivered could be used for almost any type of photography if set to the correct aperture. They were compact and light. They were sharp wide open with high contrast in the center. They were pretty flare resistant. They were sharp corner to corner stopped down to f/8-f/11 for landscape. Very well-balanced designs. |
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