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Rodenstock documentation on some lenses and more
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:21 pm    Post subject: Rodenstock documentation on some lenses and more Reply with quote
Rodenstock web site has a section documenting some of their lenses. It deals, among others, with classic enlarger lenses such as Rogonars and Rodagons, LF lenses and posh digital photography ones.



They also published an interesting paper comparing quality loss in case of using optical shift lenses or PP perspective correction.



I am not sure if this info was already shown in the forum. In this case I just missed it.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Rodenstock documentation on some lenses and more Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
Rodenstock web site has a section documenting some of their lenses.

Thanks this lead me to more in depth info on the Grandagon-N 90mm/6.8 that is due to be delivered today (along with a Schneider Symmar 150mm f 5.6 and another 5x4 monorail...)
The Perspective control article is interesting too!


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Glad you found it useful!

Are you intending to show here sample shots from your Grandagon-N? The lens characteristics sound so promising, and there is merely a couple of highly reduced shots from it in the net.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
there is also some data information for the Rodenstock lenses

https://www.largeformatcameras.net/index.php?/category/71/start-40


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are some Rodenstock lenses made in DKL Retina mount (Voigtlander DKL is different) like the Eurygon 30 mm, that isn't cheap.

Are the Rodenstock lenses (Ysarex, Reomar, Heliogon, etc) better than the Schneider (reomar, xenar, xenon, etc)?


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
papasito wrote:
There are some Rodenstock lenses made in DKL Retina mount (Voigtlander DKL is different) like the Eurygon 30 mm, that isn't cheap.

Are the Rodenstock lenses (Ysarex, Reomar, Heliogon, etc) better than the Schneider (reomar, xenar, xenon, etc)?

I would say Schneider are slightly better corrected lens but Rodenstock lens has far more character. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
papasito wrote:
There are some Rodenstock lenses made in DKL Retina mount (Voigtlander DKL is different) like the Eurygon 30 mm, that isn't cheap.

Are the Rodenstock lenses (Ysarex, Reomar, Heliogon, etc) better than the Schneider (reomar, xenar, xenon, etc)?

I would say Schneider are slightly better corrected lens but Rodenstock lens has far more character. Wink


Thank you!!!!


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looking for a way of the best reading of MTF charts, I stumbled upon the following info in Nikon web site:

Quote:

Using a MTF chart to determine the bokeh effect of the lens

Another factor that can be read from the MTF graph is the 'bokeh' of the lens. Bokeh is a term used to describe the quality of the out of focus areas a lens produces. The bokeh effect varies between lenses and the effect is influenced by the quality of the lens elements used and the number of aperture blades in the lens design (more blades produce a better circle and therefore a better 'bokeh' effect). The closer the solid line and the dotted line are together, the softer the out of focus effect will be on a particular lens.


That's pretty amazing, even if logically sound, after you've read it.

I wonder if subtle differences between lenses and makers, such as Rodenstock and Schneider, could also be seen in MTF charts.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
papasito wrote:
There are some Rodenstock lenses made in DKL Retina mount (Voigtlander DKL is different) like the Eurygon 30 mm, that isn't cheap.
Are the Rodenstock lenses (Ysarex, Reomar, Heliogon, etc) better than the Schneider (reomar, xenar, xenon, etc)?

For whatever reason, Kodaks fitted with Rodenstock lenses seem to be far scarcer here in NW Europe than those with Schneider lenses, which may explain, to a degree, why the Rodenstock lenses command higher prices … simply collector demand, rather than any other superiority.
Some Retinettes (and maybe others) were available fitted with Reomar lenses made both by Schneider and Rodenstock, which begs the question, was Rodenstock only used to help cope with production numbers?
FWIW, I've found no reference as to the designer of the Reomar. As both Schneider and Rodenstock produced it I've assumed it was a Kodak design, with the lens manufacturers simply being used as contractors, in this instance.
I spent some years assembling a collection of Kodak cameras (now mostly dispersed) and never did find a Retina (or Retinette) with a Rodenstock lens at a "sensible" price!

It's interesting to find contemporary price lists to see if one range of lenses was more expensive than the other.

Check out https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrmorodo/8310736719&ved=2ahUKEwjeyMa_nY39AhUYS8AKHUzEBPI4ChAWegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw1VRqzH_xycojKLsY5Tdi9r … the Eurygon 30mm was actually cheaper than the Curtagon 28mm!


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
papasito wrote:
There are some Rodenstock lenses made in DKL Retina mount (Voigtlander DKL is different) like the Eurygon 30 mm, that isn't cheap.
Are the Rodenstock lenses (Ysarex, Reomar, Heliogon, etc) better than the Schneider (reomar, xenar, xenon, etc)?

For whatever reason, Kodaks fitted with Rodenstock lenses seem to be far scarcer here in NW Europe than those with Schneider lenses, which may explain, to a degree, why the Rodenstock lenses command higher prices … simply collector demand, rather than any other superiority.
Some Retinettes (and maybe others) were available fitted with Reomar lenses made both by Schneider and Rodenstock, which begs the question, was Rodenstock only used to help cope with production numbers?
FWIW, I've found no reference as to the designer of the Reomar. As both Schneider and Rodenstock produced it I've assumed it was a Kodak design, with the lens manufacturers simply being used as contractors, in this instance.
I spent some years assembling a collection of Kodak cameras (now mostly dispersed) and never did find a Retina (or Retinette) with a Rodenstock lens at a "sensible" price!

It's interesting to find contemporary price lists to see if one range of lenses was more expensive than the other.

Check out https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrmorodo/8310736719&ved=2ahUKEwjeyMa_nY39AhUYS8AKHUzEBPI4ChAWegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw1VRqzH_xycojKLsY5Tdi9r … the Eurygon 30mm was actually cheaper than the Curtagon 28mm!

I can't find the price of the Eurygon 30mm in the link. I believe the price should be Eurygon 30 > Curtagon 28 > Curtagon 35 > Eurygon 35.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
kypfer wrote:
papasito wrote:
There are some Rodenstock lenses made in DKL Retina mount (Voigtlander DKL is different) like the Eurygon 30 mm, that isn't cheap.
Are the Rodenstock lenses (Ysarex, Reomar, Heliogon, etc) better than the Schneider (reomar, xenar, xenon, etc)?

For whatever reason, Kodaks fitted with Rodenstock lenses seem to be far scarcer here in NW Europe than those with Schneider lenses, which may explain, to a degree, why the Rodenstock lenses command higher prices … simply collector demand, rather than any other superiority.
Some Retinettes (and maybe others) were available fitted with Reomar lenses made both by Schneider and Rodenstock, which begs the question, was Rodenstock only used to help cope with production numbers?
FWIW, I've found no reference as to the designer of the Reomar. As both Schneider and Rodenstock produced it I've assumed it was a Kodak design, with the lens manufacturers simply being used as contractors, in this instance.
I spent some years assembling a collection of Kodak cameras (now mostly dispersed) and never did find a Retina (or Retinette) with a Rodenstock lens at a "sensible" price!

It's interesting to find contemporary price lists to see if one range of lenses was more expensive than the other.

Check out https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrmorodo/8310736719&ved=2ahUKEwjeyMa_nY39AhUYS8AKHUzEBPI4ChAWegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw1VRqzH_xycojKLsY5Tdi9r … the Eurygon 30mm was actually cheaper than the Curtagon 28mm!

I can't find the price of the Eurygon 30mm in the link. I believe the price should be Eurygon 30 > Curtagon 28 > Curtagon 35 > Eurygon 35.


My mistake … sorry … I mis-read the list Sad


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:

My mistake … sorry … I mis-read the list Sad

I have to thank you for sharing the list. It confirms that lens has the same specs are sold for the same price.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikon USA wrote:
The closer the solid line and the dotted line are together, the softer the out of focus effect will be on a particular lens.


That's a pretty daring statement.

The two MTF lines, "solid" and "dotted", do represent the contrast at a certain resolution for sagittal and tangetial lines of an image, and they are measured at the image plane (not in the out-of-focus area). Basically they show how much astigmatism and/or lateral color aberrations (lateral CAs) a lens has. Very strong astigmatism may influence the bokeh too, but the main reason for a soft / smooth bokeh are undercorrected spherical aberrations. They will show in the MTF: The Lens will have a high resolution with low or very low contrast (though other factors may have an identical effect on the MTF).

There's no way you can reliably deviate the bokeh of a lens from its MTF !!

S


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Stephan, for such a clear input!
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